Teddy Talk: Creating, Collecting, Connecting

The problem with upholstery mohair is it's made to be durable to withstand the wear and tear on furniture.  So the backing is thicker, stiffer and doesn't have the little bit of give needed to shape the roundness of your bear.  You can certainly still use it, but keep in mind it's going to be more difficult to turn if you're making a small bear and the overall appearance of any bear will be thinner than usual.  At very least I would reccomend washing the sizing out of it before you use it, if you do decide to buy it.  Good luck!

Kelly

I sold my first bear 23 years ago and started working with Intercal about 17 years ago.  A few months back I joined this forum thinking wow, great they have given us a marvelous resource for business.  Then the glue incident came up and I was pretty much told I didn't know what I was talking about in no uncertain terms since I said glue is bad and you all told me I am bad.  So I mentally shrugged and thought to heck with this and rode off into the virtual sunset not bothering to look back.

Yesterday morning I got an e-mail asking if I was someone named flamingbear posting on this forum because apparently some people thought I was based on the single glue incident......if you had gotten to know me before blasting me out of the water you would have seen the kinder gentler side of me, but I have to warn ya you're not going to see it today either.  I'm not this flamingbear person, but after a rather panicky call to Intercal asking what is going on and trying to head off bad press to my good name at the pass, I decided to look up what horrible offense this person committed and see how I was possibly connected with it.  I read all the threads they posted in, and all the comments by the other members who posted in those threads.

While I felt that flaming bear was a little harsh in some comments, I would never say anything that someone made was garbage, but overall I didn't think it was much to get excited about.  They posted their opinion in their own style.  But more importantly what I saw was that when someone disagrees with the majority of you, you form a torch bearing lynch mob and attack the offender tenfold.  But you all do it in the name of wanting to have a polite and tactful forum so it makes it ok for you to do the thing you are attacking them for.   

So I am sitting here asking myself for the love of God what is wrong with you people???  Intercal has given you this fabulous tool and you aren't using it to the best of it's ability.  If you want a mutual admiration society/coffee klatch go make one.  This forum is about the discussion of teddy bears....how to make and sell them better, not the never ending discussion of YOUR VERSION of etiquette.  Not for asking for critiques and then crying when someone gives it to you and you don't agree with what they said.  Ask yourself if you really want criticism or if you just want validation.  Are you consummate business professionals who can accept everyone's opinion even if you don't agree with it, or are you children who need to be coddled and have your ego stroked 24/7?  The most valuable lessons we learn are from the people in our lives who don't coddle us!

You have artists on here with a lot of experience and information but if they don't give you what you want to hear you run them off, or intimidate them into not posting instead of taking their expertise and experience and LEARNING from it or even just considering what they have to say before you dismiss it out of hand.  How many shy artists don't ever post something that opposes the few of you who are so strong willed because they are afraid of getting the name dropping, endlessly droning posts telling them they are socially unacceptable?  Or simply flat out wrong.  Honestly when you do you have time to make bears what with all these longgggggggggg posts that drive people into a coma?  If I had to make a post this long several times a day I would never get any bears made or sold.  I wasted hours reading this drivel tonight and not once did ya even mention the making or selling of bears in anything I read.  All ya did was whine about how someone hurt your poor little feelings and quibble over semantics.  GROW UP!  In the real world of business you're gonna get your feelings hurt and you better toughen up a little bit so you can take it and keep on working without falling apart and needing therapy or drugs to get through the day.

TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE GIFT INTERCAL HAS GIVEN YOU! 
Use it as a tool for your business, not your ego or your petty high school  BS.  Don't drive this forum into the ground, because that's exactly what you're doing.  You're going to end up hurting your own business relationships because of the way you behave on here.  Now Shelli I am going to single you out because you just work my last damn nerve, I am going to give you a piece of advice that will go against what you want to hear.......learn to shut up once in a while, don't post in every single thread......hey I know.......don't post in this one!  Just bite your tongue for once.   You are so fond of telling people they HAVE TO BE NICE and post with the proper social graces and they need to work their opinions so it sounds like their opinion isn't being foisted on everyone, but yanno what honey........that is just YOUR opinion. You haven't been making bears or doing shows that long and you don't know all there is to know about this business.  Stop foisting YOUR opinion on people about their delivery and manners.  I am a free thinking adult and I can make up my own mind about how I want to deliver what I have to say and I choose to do it in a straight forward manner, it's not rude you just can't hear my inflection since I am typing it.  Ok you can get out your matches and torches and form the mod........anyone got a rope?

It was my understanding this forum was for tips and no nonsense practical advice.  I gave you practical business advice based on my years of experience.  I don't know if you consider yourselves business people, maybe that was wrong of me to assume you do.  Maybe you would prefer information wrapped up in a pretty bow rather than straight forward tips and knowledge.  As a result you got mad at me and try to make me look like a fool.  Half of ya misquoted what I said and took things entirely out of context.  It was not my intent to insult anyone or make you feel bad on here, my intent was to share the experience I have gained over many many years of trial and error on my own part and the part of other pioneer bear artists.  I don't have to freely pass out my advice at all, even when you specifically ask me for it.   I paid my dues to the bear community and don't owe anyone anything.  So I am going to proverbially take my toys and go home.    Maybe you think that's petty and that's fine with me.  But when you have taught classes, done hundreds of shows and signings, and sold literally thousands of bears then you can tell me I am wrong and it's only MY opinion. 

So it's been a pleasure meeting you, I wish you all well in your endeavors but I didn't sign on to get beat up when I am trying to help you.  By the way Shelli, Van Gogh never sold anything in his lifetime.  That 82 mill came over a hundred years later for his art.  So at least we know he knew how to make a quality product that withstood the test of time even if he couldn't give them away while he was alive.

Have a wonderful day,

Kelly

Ok I think some of you misunderstood what I have said.  I did NOT say I don't support her or care, I said the AVERAGE CONSUMER.  Support on here is vastly different than having customers at a show who don't know you at all caring about your problems.  I didn't say the artist would not interact with the customer, I am saying the customer doesn't care what our personal lives involve.  There is a huge difference.  Of course I care about my customers!!!!!  I didn't say making bears weren't good therapy.  Beauty is born of sadness, but those are the bears you give to your neighbors or your grandkids because stress doesn't induce high quality. You're distracted at that time in your life so it's not uncommon to miss simple details, if you don't believe me compare later when you're in a better place.  You all ASKED me about the glue in the other thread, I told you why I and many other seasoned artists have never used it.  If Romans used it on boats or the Egyptians used it on their dead.......great......neither one is a bear.

I went ahead and made a post in the adhesive thread about this.  It makes me want to scream until I pass out when I find out people are using glue in any capacity directly on bear fabrics.  Fabric glues are NOT designed for that type of thing, plus there is no reason you guys should ever need to use glue to put together a bear.

If it was me I would probably buy shoes (kidding)

Vegas is really expensive, I would save it for your trip!  You can always buy mohair, but you can't always buy wedding memories.  Congrats by the way!

Well first of all I wouldn't use any plastic products in the creation of my work, no eyes, noses or joints.  But on to the larger issue, it's not an whether the glue rots, it's the fact that it will eventually break down the backing of the fabric, and it doesn't take 500 years to do it.  500 years from now all that will remain is the glue.  It's more likely to break down a natural fiber faster than a synthetic one, but eventually this too will break down.  Oil paint will break down your backing eventually too, why would you use oils on a bear?  *Utterly mystified*  I am rather horrified to find out that so many of you are using glue in the bear making process, why?  WHY?  Back in the good old days no one used glue directly on the bear for anything, and I still don't EVER put glue on mohair in any capacity.  Nor would I ever buy a bear that I knew had glue directly used on it.  Do you think Steiff used glue?  Please understand that fabric glues were created with sweatshirts and fabric covered bandboxes in mind, not higher quality projects meant to last a long time. Although I don't use synthetics anymore, I've used plenty of them in the past and never found a need for glue there either.  If you can't keep control of the stretch factor of your synthetics you need to upgrade to a better piece of fabric, because that one isn't bear worthy to begin with and you are going to create a shoddy product that doesn't have staying power.  Using glue or other cheap tricks can be a crutch, you want to refine your skills.  Anyone can make a bear, many people can make a cute or even a snazzy looking bear, few can make a bear that's cute or snazzy lookin that will last through the generations because of quality.  THAT is what makes us the artists, so please be one of those few people.  It's not just about making a buck, it's about quality of product and reputation as well.  You need to think about the products you're turning out, where they go, and their life after they leave you.  It's wonderful to think that people treat them like fine art and put them in glass cases with temperature and humidity control, but the truth is most don't.  At some point the bears are going to be handled and maybe even played with.  What happens if the bear is in an incredibly humid climate that reconstitutes the glue?  Nothin like a sticky bear.  *Shudders*  I got a post card once from a collector that took my bear to Peru in a back pack, can you imagine if it started fallin apart in some way on the trip?  I know my bears can withstand a whole lot of torture because they are built to last.  When in doubt, a good rule of thumb is if you couldn't put it on human hair, don't use it on a bear.

I am sorry you are going through a personal crisis, and I know you want support but sometimes support doesn't involve just telling you what you want to hear.  You need to know the truth about what you are doing, and what the long term effects of it will be.  Also remember that stress does not equal a good product.  It's better to deal with your issues then go back to working on your bears.  The harsh reality is that the consumer doesn't care one bit about your personal problems, they care that they saved up X amount of their disposable income to give to YOU for something they want and they are going to expect it to be good.  I don't want to sound like a royal witch but I don't want to sugar coat this either.  Think about it, when you go to Wendy's you don't stop to think about how sad it must make Dave Thomas's family to pass by them because they miss him, you think gee do I get a salad or a cheeseburger.  You need to realize the gravity of what you're doing, the consequences of the product you're creating, that it will be used and subjected to things you can't even conceive of, and the people buying those products.

Phil sees his shadow 87% of the time according to the news.  Besides with all those lights and flashbulbs how can he help but see it?  Who came up with the idea of meteorology by rodent anyway?  *arches an eyebrow*  Phil or no Phil.......it's still darned cold in Colorado, but I start dreaming of spring the day after Christmas.

They took out our Rainforest Cafe *cries*  but we did eat there in October when we went to Disneyworld.  The Coral Reef was closed down at that point, maybe next time we go they will have it open.  My favorite place is in Denver at The California Kitchen or Cafe or somethin.......If fergit the exact name.  But you go in and it's sorta ultra modern meets tiki cafe and they have a grilled salmon with grapefruit butter that makes ya just want to lick the plate!  It's very relaxing and I enjoy dragging my friends there.  Even my husband, Mr. Meatandpotatosguy likes it.

Please remember that Ebay is a lot about the picture and not as much about the quality of the item.  There are a few artists on there who are selling at incredible prices and having personally seen their work I know it's put together very poorly and not worth what they are getting for it.  Please PLEASE don't let the lack of a sale on ebay or anywhere else bog you down and make you think you need change your work.  We're in a mercurial business, and you tend to remember the bad things and take them more personally than the good things.  You should only make changes to your work because YOU believe you need to make them.  The people who do best in this world remain true to themselves always, remember that!  When you remain true to who you are and believe in your own vision the rest of the world eventually catches up!

Wow Catherine, how lucky you are to have experienced that, and what a treasure with the old photos!  I would love to see the great pyramids, and some day I will!  My husband who has a terror of overseas travel has to go to Germany for work next year for a whole month, so I am hoping he will see there is nothin to be afraid of in traveling over the ocean or to another country and we can start traveling more for fun.  I have a wonderful old pic from about 1921 of my two great great uncles taken in Egypt and they had that typical outfit of khaki's and pith helmets.  The pic is wonderful.  I am so glad you shared that experience with us!

Edit:  Isn't it funny how so many bear collectors love travel and travel memorabilia.......makes ya go hmmm.......*winks*

My own personal findings have been posted in post two!  Thanks for taking the challenge!

Wow congrats to all! :clap:

I am going to do the update with my own findings on this in a couple hours, not to worry.......I haven't forgotten!

You might get a lil more support if you explained what Bearwitched is for those of us who don't know......

The Sphinx has long been a source of intrigue for me.  I have studied it over the years but always knew something wasn't quite right with it.  Why would the builders botch the proportion so badly?  Well one theory is perhaps they weren't that accomplished with large sculptures?  But yet if you look at the art of the time period they were making gigantic sculptures to near perfect scale and proportion.  Also before the Sphinx no other piece of egyptian art was done in those proportions.  So if one looks at the details of the Sphinx we start to see that the lionesque body of the piece is very different in detail from the head, as if they were sculpted by different artists.  So if we do just a little history on the Giza plateau we learn that 50,000-30,000 years ago it was a jungle.  Jungles often have lions.  We can pretty safely deduce that the Sphinx started out as a whole lion built by a long forgotten civilization that came before the egyptians.  Somewhere along the line a pharoh with a big ego and a small budget most likely had the lions head recarved into his own image.  So now the question remains......what does this teach us in relation to bearmaking?

1. Proportion.  Even if you are doing a character or chibi style bear there still has to be a certain standard of proportion you adhere to in order for the piece to work.  The Sphinx looks odd and ungainly due to it's proportions.

2. Detail, detail, DETAIL!  Paying attention to all the small details of your work can make such a huge difference in the outcome.

3. The most important lesson I like to impart on anyone who has taken a class from me is CONTINUITY!  The Sphinx is lacking that all important quality that is required for a piece of art that was the vision of one or even a group of artists of the same time period.  All too often bear artists get caught up in the latest fad.  A certain jointing method, aging/distressing, an armature, needle sculpting, a color technique....whatever it is.  While there is certainly nothing wrong with trying these things, I have noticed that so often the person will take the fad technique and apply it to their same old style of bear without changing any other thing and it won't make sense for the piece.  Then when it doesn't easily sell they don't understand why not.  Floppy joints don't make sense on a brand new looking hard stuffed bear.  Needle sculpting a fun face wouldn't make sense on a vintage reproduction piece.  Whatever you choose to do, think about every aspect of what you want it to be, right down to the ribbons.  You couldn't reconcile the Mona Lisa in a modern lucite frame.  It's a small detail but it wouldn't make sense with the overall feeling of the piece and would detract from the sense of timelessness that Leonardo was trying to convey.

4. Mystique, part of the fascination of the Sphinx is the mysterious quality of not knowing all the details of how it came to be.  That too is an important lesson when selling a bear.  I read something on ebay recently where the artist says she threw the piece in the trash for several hours, then dug it out to sell.  Do you want to buy something that has been in the trash for a few hours?  That seems rather insulting to the work and the buyer.  We have all had our frustrating moments while working on something but that doesn't mean we need to tell all.  This is the real world of commerce, not the teddy bear version of Sally Jessie.

Good luck with all your endeavors.......I hope you all take something away from this little exercise in how we view the world, our art and ourselves. :dance:

Hugs, Kelly

It would probably help to see a pic of it.  But if I had to guess........I would say try cernit or sculpy to make the muzzle, then heat the felt to shape and mold it over the muzzle like you would block a hat.  Then either use a spray type of fabric glue or stitch it to the rest of the head.

Good luck!  Kelly

Edit:  I want to comment that as a rule I would NEVER under any circumstance suggest the use of glue on a bear ever because that makes me want to scream in horror, since it breaks down fabric backings over time.   But there is an exception to every rule, I do think in this instance a light layer would be required.

Many of the old bear companies used fabric circle jointing for their bears necks, also Steiff uses it for most of it's animals with jointed necks and in other areas.  If you are having a problem with bulk that might be worth giving it a try.

I am sure all of you are familiar with the Great Sphinx that sits on the Giza Plateau in Egypt.  Over the decades historians, archaeologists, anthropologists, and a plethora of scientists have studied and conducted tests on it trying to discern it's secrets and it's origins.  Many of them have come up with their own theories.  I find myself wondering how many artists have studied it with nothing more than the artistic eye as their tool?  I have studied it a bit and came up with several conclusions of my own.  So here is my challenge, study it and see what you come up with.  Post your findings here and after a few days I will edit this post and tell you what I figured out.  Here is a link to a site that shows some nice pics of it:

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/sphinx1.htm

Tip: Search for other pics of egyptian art for comparison.

So what on earth does this have to go with bearmaking you ask?  PLENTY!  When I teach classes I always try to get people to really think about what they are doing.  There are several very good applicable lessons to bearmaking to be learned from this type of thing.......lets see if you can discern what those are as well! 

Don't forget to post your findings!

*Grins mischeviously*  Good luck!

Kelly

EDIT:  Findings posted in the next post!

I used it once........just once..........

He's adorable!

If it was me, I would buy some of that inexpensive 2.98 a yard craft store fur or thick felt to make disposable practice bear heads with the right texture....they also make good cat toys instead of throwing them away!