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TamiL Dolls N Dreams
Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 6,454
Website

so sad, just saw on facebook that a hunter has shot and killed Hope  bear_cry  bear_cry  bear_cry
I'm sorry but I hate hunting  bear_angry  bear_angry  bear_angry
Hope was loved by so many and taught so much, I knew it would be a matter of time before it happened....
I'm not following anymore because I know it will just be a matter of time before they shoot and kill Lily...
sad in colorado today  bear_cry  bear_cry  bear_cry

dangerbears Dangerbears
Wisconsin
Posts: 6,013
Website

Me, too. bear_cry Hugs, Tami. :hug:  :hug:  :hug:

Becky

SueAnn Past Time Bears
Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 20,270

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner Sponsor

bear_cry  bear_cry  bear_cry  bear_cry  bear_cry  bear_cry
:hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:

Michelle Helen Chaska, Minnesota
Posts: 2,895

I only hope she did not suffer. What a sad day..... bear_cry  bear_cry  bear_cry  bear_cry

TamiL Dolls N Dreams
Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 6,454
Website

What I don't understand is........they all knew Hope would not wear a collar, why didnt they spray her with a bright colored paint on her forehead and back......

dangerbears Dangerbears
Wisconsin
Posts: 6,013
Website
Tami wrote:

.they all knew Hope would not wear a collar, why didnt they spray her with a bright colored paint

That was explained in one of the updates. What it boiled down to is that the researchers have to tread so lightly up there. The DNR and hunting interests seem to wield a lot of power, and Dr. Rogers is not well-liked by everyone, which is just unfathomable to me. Anything that could be construed as hunter harassment could result in complaints against the WRI and the loss of their study permit.  bear_wacko

Becky

thumperantiques Newcastle, Ontario
Posts: 5,641

Or even a pink ring around her neck, to imitate a collar, where she couldn't get at it to lick the paint.  I think the Centre thought they would all be together as a group and that would save Hope, along with the fact she was not fully grown, but unfortunately, it didn't.  They should have at least asked for permission for Hope, because she refused a collar - they might have received permission for the special circumstances.  I don't think the Bear Centre realizes how many people may not follow any more because of this.   Even if they are successful in getting the research bears protected, there will always be someone who wants to hunt one, just to prove he can. It's too heartbreaking and I am done following as well.

TamiL Dolls N Dreams
Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 6,454
Website

I agree Brenda, just to sad to stay in contact, I feel they will shoot and kill Lily next and Faith this time next year bear_sad
I know it happens every day somewhere to a poor animal, but we all felt we knew this family and grew to love them so it really hit close to home bear_sad

Jennskains Posts: 2,203

I hate hunting.

Gabriele~GJOYfulBears GJOYful Bears
Posts: 511

I don't know what you're all talking about because no one has explained to me who Hope is but I'm very sad that  the bear called Hope has been killed. Killing bears is wrong. They're not like foxes, rabbits and ducks, they're endangered and they're such special creatures in which there are not lots of.

Very sad and I'm sending big hugs to you all who have obviously been following Hope for some time.

thumperantiques Newcastle, Ontario
Posts: 5,641

Tami, I agree - I'm actually surprised Lily hasn't been shot  yet - the more famous she becomes, I think the more likely someone will shoot her deliberately.  I think some of these hunters are so annoyed with the research and the centre, I feel they will do what they can to stop people from following.  I also think the DNR has known all along what happened to Hope and to avoid bad press, have said nothing.  They would rather leave thousands of supporters without news, than to confirm the shooting of Hope and if it hadn't been for the hunter, we would never have known for sure what happened.  At least this man had the courage to let everyone know that Hope had been killed.   Now that the centre has nearly hit their target of $700,000.00 to their fund, maybe it's time to stop putting cameras in the dens.  As much enjoyment as I got from watching, I've come to believe they are not doing the bears any favours.

Dawn J Hugs Unlimited
West Yorkshire
Posts: 310
Website
Gabriele~GJOYfulBears wrote:

I don't know what you're all talking about because no one has explained to me who Hope is but I'm very sad that  the bear called Hope has been killed. Killing bears is wrong. They're not like foxes, rabbits and ducks, they're endangered and they're such special creatures in which there are not lots of.

Very sad and I'm sending big hugs to you all who have obviously been following Hope for some time.

Hope was the subject of a webcam and then a TV programme. Many of us watched Hope being born. I am beyond angry about what has happened. However, I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you that foxes, rabbits and ducks are somehow 'not important'. To me, ALL hunting of ALL animals is wrong.

Natascha LeftyBears by Natascha Sabo
Remchingen
Posts: 314

I'm sad, too.
But I win't stop following the work of Dr. Rogers.
No, I will continue to follow them and do everything that I can to help spread the word that black bears are not fierce beasts that must be killed but gentle, intelligent animals that need to be protected.
I mean, we might not be able to stop hunting by law, but we can help to create a society that doesn't accept bear hunting!!!!

Karon Posts: 751

I agree with Dawn - the lives of "Foxes, ducks and rabbits" are EVERY bit as important as bears.  Can't understand how people ENJOY killing things.

Gabriele~GJOYfulBears GJOYful Bears
Posts: 511
Dawn J wrote:
Gabriele~GJOYfulBears wrote:

I don't know what you're all talking about because no one has explained to me who Hope is but I'm very sad that  the bear called Hope has been killed. Killing bears is wrong. They're not like foxes, rabbits and ducks, they're endangered and they're such special creatures in which there are not lots of.

Very sad and I'm sending big hugs to you all who have obviously been following Hope for some time.

Hope was the subject of a webcam and then a TV programme. Many of us watched Hope being born. I am beyond angry about what has happened. However, I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you that foxes, rabbits and ducks are somehow 'not important'. To me, ALL hunting of ALL animals is wrong.

Hi Dawn! Firstly thank you so much for answering me about Hope, I wanted to know what you were all talking to me about. Secondly, I most certainly did not mean that foxes, rabbits and ducks are "not important." Not at all! What I meant was it is one thing to shoot a duck for example, and totally another for someone to be comfortable killing a bear. My father is hunter, and he kills foxes, rabbits and ducks mostly. The difference is when he kills rabbits and ducks, he brings them home and mostly we eat them - and the skin is also used to help train his hunting dogs what to hunt and what not to hunt.
Also I'd like to add I actually have a "pet" fox (he's actually not a "pet" as such but he visits me by coming through the cat flap in the door, and will come and sit with me on the couch. He's wild, but when he was a kit - baby - he just started visiting me through the cat flap and started sitting with me while I was sewing bears. He's one of my best friends and he's most certainly isn't unimportant just because he's a fox). I make a lot of foxes with my bears as I just love them. Also when dad happens to kill a mother rabbit or mother fox, completely by accident as he would never  do this intentionally, he brings home the baby foxes or rabbits and I keep them and look after them. I usually let them go free again however sometimes they have to remain pets. We never kill just because it's "fun." I know for my dad it is not about "fun" it just seems to be a part of him, his upbringing, and he always does the right thing. He never kills an animal he doesn't intend to use for food etc. It's not just sport.

It is awful with the bears though. It is wrong. They are not for eating or for sport, they are endangered and they deserve a life like EVERY OTHER LIVING THING.

Gabriele~GJOYfulBears GJOYful Bears
Posts: 511

I'd also like to add Dawn that I don't believe any living thing deserves to have it's life taken by another. Everything has a right to a life. I just know it is impossible to change my father's outlook on hunting. I have tried to change him before and I now know I'm never going to change him.
I actually think that animals will one day become only friends and everyone will be vegetarian. That is my belief, not just my hope. It may sound corny but that is my belief.

I have never told my father about my "pet" fox - because I know if I did he'd be straight over to my house setting traps etc. That thought alone makes me wish I could change his beliefs but I know I can't.

Just letting you know, Dawn, I don't agree with hunting at all either but it certainly HAD it's place at one time in human's history. We're still in the process of outgrowing it I believe.

dangerbears Dangerbears
Wisconsin
Posts: 6,013
Website

Gabriele, Joanne wrote a long message to you about Hope in the original thread (a few lines before this one in the list of topics).

Becky

Gabriele~GJOYfulBears GJOYful Bears
Posts: 511

Oh really? I'm so sorry I didn't see it! Awww I'm sorry. I get lost so often here and really easily, I try to keep up but it's hard as I'm not really a computer girl lol. I'll try to find it.... might get lost again but we'll see.

Thanks so much Becky for letting me know about it, I can't believe I missed it!

Gabriele~GJOYfulBears GJOYful Bears
Posts: 511

Another member also sent me a link to the site and I saw photos of Hope, she was beautiful indeed.

I do have to say I honestly, with all my heart, believe that hunting feeling like a necessity for humans is coming to an end. We are out-growing this, however slow and prolonged it may feel to on-lookers, the Human race as a whole is going a good direction not a bad one. I hope everyone tries to remember this when things like this happen to make you feel down. Hope brought such happiness and inspiration to so many lives, don't forget what she taught you all and remember that there are more bears in need of help too.

I'd also like to say approaching hunters with some understanding, empathy and if you can't manage empathy than sympathy, is a good thing to practice. The hunter who killed Hope sounds to me like a good and honest hunter who did not mean to shoot Hope and who does not do so for sport but for the quality of meat etc. It may be hard to hear, but at least she was not left to waste like so many heartless hunters practice. From what information you have been given I hope you all try to visualize that Hope left this life painlessly and with thanks given to her by the hunter who took her life. Hope taught you all so much.... Bear hugs to you all

desertmountainbear desertmountainbear
Bloomsburg, PA
Posts: 5,399
Website

The hardest thing through all this has been the deliberate cruelty that has surfaced especially on the other hateful FB site.  It has opened my eyes to the purposeful meanness of others, bullying to be exact.  And now there is also much blame and finger pointing.  It is very easy to do when you are on a computer and not looking someone in the eye.

Not only have I unliked the Lily page so that I can't see anything posted there on my wall anymore, I have been rethinking facebook all together. I think I was much happier being places like here where I could be joyfully ignorant to the cruelty of the world.

I am still going to follow the research updates that are written by the researchers and sent to my email.  They are very deliberate in their words, and I have found much comfort the past few days from them.

Joanne

Dawn J Hugs Unlimited
West Yorkshire
Posts: 310
Website
Gabriele~GJOYfulBears wrote:
Dawn J wrote:
Gabriele~GJOYfulBears wrote:

I don't know what you're all talking about because no one has explained to me who Hope is but I'm very sad that  the bear called Hope has been killed. Killing bears is wrong. They're not like foxes, rabbits and ducks, they're endangered and they're such special creatures in which there are not lots of.

Very sad and I'm sending big hugs to you all who have obviously been following Hope for some time.

Hope was the subject of a webcam and then a TV programme. Many of us watched Hope being born. I am beyond angry about what has happened. However, I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you that foxes, rabbits and ducks are somehow 'not important'. To me, ALL hunting of ALL animals is wrong.

Hi Dawn! Firstly thank you so much for answering me about Hope, I wanted to know what you were all talking to me about. Secondly, I most certainly did not mean that foxes, rabbits and ducks are "not important." Not at all! What I meant was it is one thing to shoot a duck for example, and totally another for someone to be comfortable killing a bear. My father is hunter, and he kills foxes, rabbits and ducks mostly. The difference is when he kills rabbits and ducks, he brings them home and mostly we eat them - and the skin is also used to help train his hunting dogs what to hunt and what not to hunt.
Also I'd like to add I actually have a "pet" fox (he's actually not a "pet" as such but he visits me by coming through the cat flap in the door, and will come and sit with me on the couch. He's wild, but when he was a kit - baby - he just started visiting me through the cat flap and started sitting with me while I was sewing bears. He's one of my best friends and he's most certainly isn't unimportant just because he's a fox). I make a lot of foxes with my bears as I just love them. Also when dad happens to kill a mother rabbit or mother fox, completely by accident as he would never  do this intentionally, he brings home the baby foxes or rabbits and I keep them and look after them. I usually let them go free again however sometimes they have to remain pets. We never kill just because it's "fun." I know for my dad it is not about "fun" it just seems to be a part of him, his upbringing, and he always does the right thing. He never kills an animal he doesn't intend to use for food etc. It's not just sport.

It is awful with the bears though. It is wrong. They are not for eating or for sport, they are endangered and they deserve a life like EVERY OTHER LIVING THING.

It must be difficult when a family member has different beliefs to you. I can understand that you of course love and respect your father. Hunting purely for food is, of course, different from hunting for pleasure or sport, but I really hope, as you say, that the world will realise that we don't need to kill animals to survive. I have been vegetarian for over 30 years and it is a decision that I have never regretted. I'm sorry if I offended you or your father, it was not my intention.

binglebears bingle bears
Upstate, NY
Posts: 1,559
Website

I'm so sad that Hope is gone from us. bear_cry  bear_cry   But I had been preparing myself for her loss since the beginning of the summer.  The "untouchable" one wouldn't wear a collar, so I figured it was only a matter of time that she would be shot.  It just came much sooner than I thought--I was expecting it next year or the year after.  I'm not a fan of hunting, but I have been impressed by how respectful many of the hunters have been toward the radio-collared bears.  I really believe that this hunter would not have shot Hope if he had known it was her--but there truly was no way that he could have known.  The woods there are very thick and it's difficult to see very far. 

I know many have decided to stop following Lily's and the other bear's stories because of this, but it seems to me that now is the time to continue to band together and support the research team.  I'm sure that they are having an even harder time coping with this than any of us are.  I was crushed when we lost little Jason and I'm crushed now that we have lost Hope.  However, there are still so many bears that need our continued support so that, hopefully, in time, there will be a law against killing radio-collared bears.  That way we won't have to rely on the respectability and integrity of the hunter to spare them--unlike last year when we lost Sarah.

Us Bears Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,479
desertmountainbear wrote:

The hardest thing through all this has been the deliberate cruelty that has surfaced especially on the other hateful FB site.  It has opened my eyes to the purposeful meanness of others, bullying to be exact.

This +1 !!   bear_thumb  bear_thumb  bear_thumb

Let me rant, here.  I promise I'll try to get to the point.

I'm sad about Hope, too.  My stepfather has been watching the bears on the internet almost every night since the project started.  I watch occasionally to.  It's all right to be sad and it's all right to be angry but we all need to be careful how we act when we are sad and angry.

Saying that you hate guns because they kill is like saying you hate spoons because they make people fat.
Saying that you hate hunters because they shoot animals is like saying you hate chefs because they cook food that gives people high cholesterol.

It's not the guns.  It's not the hunting.  It's the PEOPLE who hunt irresponsibly and use guns carelessly who are to blame.

We could go around saying that hunting must be banned or guns must be outlawed but that's like taking all the spoon away from a fat man eating a bowl of ice cream.  He's going to find another way to eat his ice cream even if he has to do it with his hands.
More animals are killed by pollution, habitat destruction and just general disregard for the environment than are killed by hunters.  Even without hunting, many animals are still going to be endangered and become extinct.  Banning things isn't the answer.

Okay, let's pretend that we could ban hunting tomorrow.  That will make us feel good for the short term but at what cost?  It won't have a great effect on the lives of the animals living in the forest which don't get taken by hunters because, as I said, many animals die from environmental destruction.  However, it WILL give others implicit permission to seek out other things to be banned.

I ban hunting and somebody else bans smoking.  The next guy bans fatty junk food.  What comes next?  Is it not possible that somebody could come along and decide that something that is important to you should be banned?  Yes!

Los Angeles, California tried to ban putting bacon on hot dogs.  San Francisco is trying to ban putting toys in McDonald's Happy Meals!  Just how STRANGE can people be?  What are they going to try to ban next?  Is somebody going to come along and say that Teddy Bears are graven images that should be banned?  It's unlikely but, rhetorically speaking, it IS POSSIBLE.

Banning things and using laws to limit people's behavior isn't the answer.

Why couldn't the researchers come up with a plan to buy some land to make a wildlife preserve for the bears to live?
Why couldn't some wildlife conservation organization have formed a group of people to spread the word about the research project on the bears?
Why couldn't we have had better law enforcement to stop illegal or careless hunters?

Mostly, it's because of money... or the lack, thereof.

However, we have a government that's been on a multi-trillion dollar spending binge.  We have a president who goes golfing when he should be working on the economy.  We have a congress that goes on vacation when they should be voting on the budget.  We have government agencies that spend $1,000 on toilet seats.  We have an entire governmental system that has spun out of control!

We need to get those government officials off their fat butts, make them straighten out the economy then tell them to stop blowing hot air, passing stupid laws that don't mean anything.

If they did, Hope and Lilly could have been living on a specially designated preserve where hunting isn't allowed without a special permit.

I'm pretty peeved off about Hope getting shot.  Although the news reports say otherwise, I still think the guy did it deliberately.  He'd have to be pretty STUPID to hunt in that area without knowing about the research!

I'm not going to get mad at hunters, though.  I'm going to get mad at the people who I pay for the privilege to yell at!
I pay taxes and I vote.  There are going to be a lot of fat cat, bureaucrats finding themselves out of a job if they don't straighten up and fly right!

Okay...  I'm done ranting.

The soapbox goes to the next person who wants a turn.  bear_happy  bear_happy  bear_happy

wubbiebear Braille Teddies
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Posts: 671

Do you hear that, Us Bears?  That was the sound of about 100 bears cheering for you.  Word and ten-four.

desertmountainbear desertmountainbear
Bloomsburg, PA
Posts: 5,399
Website
Us Bears wrote:
desertmountainbear wrote:

The hardest thing through all this has been the deliberate cruelty that has surfaced especially on the other hateful FB site.  It has opened my eyes to the purposeful meanness of others, bullying to be exact.

This +1 !!   bear_thumb  bear_thumb  bear_thumb


It's not the guns.  It's not the hunting.  It's the PEOPLE who hunt irresponsibly and use guns carelessly who are to blame.



The soapbox goes to the next person who wants a turn.  bear_happy  bear_happy  bear_happy

I agree with every word you just said.  This site I am talking about "Lily a Bear With A Bounty"  purposely and hatefully set out to hurt thousands of people, just because they could.  That is the hardest thing for me.  They had no care about the elderly people who had not much else in their lives but a bear, or the hundreds of school children who like children do came to love her. 

I think even if this hunter was on this site, Lynn and Sue would never let us know.  I thank them from the bottom of my heart for taking the high road.

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