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dangerbears Dangerbears
Wisconsin
Posts: 6,021
Website

Harlowmonkeys5.jpgWhile watching as very interesting TV program about human attachments and people with problems forming those attachments, I was reminded of (and can't stop thinking about) the famous "surrogate mother" research by Harry Harlow in the 1950s and 1960s.

In the experiments, baby monkeys were taken from their mothers and "cared for" in isolation. Then they were presented with a choice of surrogate mothers -- one made of wire with a bottle of milk attached, and one soft and a bit more lifelike model with no milk. The monkeys invariably chose to get some comfort from the soft "mother."

The video footage of these experiments is heart-wrenching to watch, and to make matters worse, the same situation can apply to human children raised in orphanages. In both cases, the results are devastating. Here's an understatement:

Wikipedia wrote:

Harlow's experiments were controversial; they included rearing infant macaques in isolation chambers for up to 24 months, from which they emerged severely disturbed.

As the experiments (and orphanages) have proved, children's being able to receive a soft warm cuddle from mom, dad, a caregiver, or in a pinch -- a teddy bear -- is not only a nice thing, it's an absolute necessity.

Becky

peterbear Boechout, Antwerp
Posts: 4,755
dangerbears wrote:

As the experiments (and orphanages) have proved, children's being able to receive a soft warm cuddle from mom, dad, a caregiver, or in a pinch -- a teddy bear -- is not only a nice thing, it's an absolute necessity.

A very interesting topic, Becky, and one that I strongly take to heart.  bear_thumb

At the beginning of the 20th century behaviorism and its founder, John Watson, played a detrimental role in promoting the rearing of children without affection, mother's love or any kind of emotion.  Watson proposed raising babies on "baby farms" run strictly by his so-called scientific principles : children were never to be hugged or embraced or given any kind of affection, except a pat on the head.  The results were devastating : children grew up to be like zombies, their immune system was ruined and their mental growth was damaged beyond repair.

It's hard to imagine that behaviorism ruled the world of psychology for more than half a century.

If you are interested in reading more about the experiments of Harry Harlow and the importance of emotions among animals and humans, I highly recommend a recent book by a leading biologist and primatologist Frans de Waal, called "the age of empathy".

And you are so right : a teddy bear is an absolute necessity !  bear_original

I'd love to hear other TT'ers opinion on it.

Hugs,  :hug:

Peter & Vincent (he agrees with me)

Bubble-Up Bears Bubble Up Bears!
Murrieta, California
Posts: 1,804

Thank you Becky for your post.
As many of you know my daughter is adopted.
What you don't know as I have NEVER shared this on Teddy Talk before now is we also have an adopted son. Now 27.
We adopted him at the age of 8. Unfortunately the damage to him was already done and so severe that he is now estranged from us and has been for our safety since he was 18. While in our home he mutilated, maimed, tortured and killed many family pets. He started fires and tried to kill us all several times.
He even molested my daughter.
We slept in shifts for our own safety.
All the love, attention, care, counseling and help we got him was to no avail. He was damaged beyond help.
All because he was raised for the first 8 years of his life without love. Without care. Without any human nurturing.
I could go on and on but my point is, love is so important to the psyche and to deprive such love is an abomination. Even to a poor little monkey!!!
The very first gift I bought my son was a teddy bear. bear_original

dangerbears Dangerbears
Wisconsin
Posts: 6,021
Website

Thank you for your thoughtful replies, Peter and Cyndee.

Bubble-Up Bears wrote:

we also have an adopted son. Now 27.

Your experience is something I can't begin to imagine, but it still breaks my heart. How sad that so much damage was caused and so much human potential was destroyed by that boy's early life experiences. I'm so glad that you're here today to talk about it. I could tell from this forum that you had a good heart, but your ten years of effort and love for your son tell me much more.
My best regards,
Becky

Michelle Helen Chaska, Minnesota
Posts: 2,897

I remember studying Harlow and I too was heartbroken about those poor monkeys having to chose between food and a warm cuddly surrogate. I know the experiment provided groundbreaking data for us to look at child rearing and emotional development.  I am now a license clinician did 13 years of direct patient care before moving into management. So this post is right up my ally.

Cyndee talked about her adopted son. Very sad situation no matter how much love was given. He was eight when he came to live with her family. Personalities are really developed from birth up to age six. So those first six years are critical in providing love, security, shelter and food (Maslow's hierarchy of needs). It breaks my heart when you see emotional and physical abuse happening to small children. It can damage them for life. When I did direct patient care with families with children, I made sure they understand how their (parents) behavior can impact their children. They need to make sure they communicate love to their children even if they have to correct naughty behavior. When parents are screaming and shouting at their children, they are out of control. It's a reactive move that is not a good thing for their kids. Rather, when the parent is angry they need to take a time out for themselves before dealing with their child so abuse does not occur like hitting (this is very bad). They need to deal with naughty children in a calm rational manner (this is hard but is a "must") explaining the rules or correct behavior that needs to be seen. Time-outs should never be lengthy. For a 5 year old, five minutes is an eternity. So time outs should be age appropriate. Give the child a chance to correct themselves and than praise them for it (very important). Oh, I can go on and on....

desertmountainbear desertmountainbear
Bloomsburg, PA
Posts: 5,399

Oh Cyndee, what a devastating thing to happen as a parent.   
Joanne

WoozieJu Woozie Ju Bears
North Walsham
Posts: 435
Website

Oh Cyndee, you are so brave to share that with everyone....
Such a heartbreaking story - how ever did you cope? I've been looking into adoption as a result of no success with the "natural" family & it seems like a minefield in this country? I know it's just about impossible to adopt a baby &  the most needy children are older but I don't know if I could cope with the access & continuing rights that biological parents/grandparents/siblings seem to have now?
My heart went out to you when I read your story....
Love & BIG hugs,
Julia xxx

Bubble-Up Bears Bubble Up Bears!
Murrieta, California
Posts: 1,804

Thank you everyone for your kind words and continued information.
Michelle is so very right on. Unfortunate for Joseph he was already damaged beyond help. It did take a lot for me to speak here. bear_original
I took a lot of criticism from so called friends, church family, those saying I was not trying enough. We could no longer put our daughter at risk and he had to be institutionalized. Unfortunately he was released at the age of 18.
I'm not against adoption. We adopted our daughter now 21. She was adopted first and we got her at 7 days old straight from the hospital. She does have problems, learning problems that is because she was born drug addicted but she does not suffer from the lack of love and care like Joseph did.
If I could just say one thing for anyone thinking of adopting an older child. Be sure. Be sure you know everything. We were not told the truth about Joseph. Things were hidden from us and things were rushed. From the time we met him until the time he was living with us 3 short weeks had passed. Be sure............
Thanks again everyone.:)

danceswithteddybears Dances With Teddy Bears
Pacific Northwest
Posts: 697

I remember this study and related.  My parents were unable to show love or emotion , except in the worst way.  I barely survived.

dangerbears Dangerbears
Wisconsin
Posts: 6,021
Website
Laura wrote:

My parents were unable to show love or emotion

That's sad. I'm sorry to hear it, but glad that you made it.  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:

Becky

Bubble-Up Bears Bubble Up Bears!
Murrieta, California
Posts: 1,804

I think many of us were in dysfunctional homes.
Some of us were able to survive. But for those who were not life is bleak.
If I remember correctly Laura, you like I was able to marry a loving, understanding husband. bear_original

danceswithteddybears Dances With Teddy Bears
Pacific Northwest
Posts: 697

Thanks, Becky.
It gave me weaknesses but also strength.  It made me who I am today, and I'm proud of who that is.  I hope that makes sense.
:hug:

danceswithteddybears Dances With Teddy Bears
Pacific Northwest
Posts: 697

Cyndee, I totally agree.  And, yes, I did marry a wonderful wonderful man.  We've been married for 28 years.
:hug:

Bubble-Up Bears Bubble Up Bears!
Murrieta, California
Posts: 1,804

I though I had it right Laura!!!:)
27 years here!

SueAnn Past Time Bears
Double Oak, Texas
Posts: 22,132

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner Sponsor

I ache for and empathize with all who grew up in dysfunctional families.  I never had any plush toys during my childhood, but my collie dog was my confidant, my comfort and support through difficult times.  She endured many hours of my pain and tears with total patience and acceptance . . . I will always be grateful.

danceswithteddybears Dances With Teddy Bears
Pacific Northwest
Posts: 697

Thank you, Sue Ann, for sharing what is often so/too difficult to share.   But I believe it to be part of the continual healing process.
  :hug:

Michelle Helen Chaska, Minnesota
Posts: 2,897

Oh Sue Ann- animals are so healing. Thank goodness you had your dog.

Cindee- you have been through so much. My heart does go out to you....

Laura - It is hard growing up without love, but look at you now. You have a loving husband!

binglebears bingle bears
Upstate, NY
Posts: 1,559

Oh, Cyndee, Laura, and Sue Ann!  I wish I could give you all great big bear hugs right now.  I've been reading this post on and off and I just haven't known what to say.  It all just breaks my heart.  Sue Ann, I'm so thankful that you had your dog to help you get through.  And Cyndee and Laura, I again am so thankful that you survived and that you have loving, supportive husbands to help you get through now.

Cyndee, I just don't know what to say.  I'm holding back the tears as I write this.  I am SO sorry for what you have gone through with your son.  I can't even imagine how that must have been for your family.  And then to have people you trusted blame you for the trauma you were enduring with your son.  Oh...my heart goes out to you.

Bless you all,
Cheryl

DENBY30 DENBY BEARS
EDISON, NEW JERSEY
Posts: 1,586

bear_wub  bear_wub I don't know what to say either, Cyndee, you are the best, most gracious person I have come to know here on TT, and am thankful you have emerged from all that hurt un scathed. Yes I know emotionally you are scarred, but you still seem to be happy and loving.  I send you the biggest hugs I can.  You are a wonderful person.
to the rest that have had hurt in their life I certainly wish them well also.  My father died when I was 1 years old, leaving Mom with 5 kids.  She worked all her life to care for us, we did not have much, but I can only remember my childhood as being good, my mom did not hug and kiss, but she loved us all, took us places that a lot of people never get to go.  She lived to be 90, so I can not put myself one millionith into the hard lives in this script.  God Bless you with Hugs from my heart!

Bubble-Up Bears Bubble Up Bears!
Murrieta, California
Posts: 1,804

Thank you all for your support and kind words.:)
Now I don't know what to say.
Life can be difficult as we see from all the different life stories here and throughout other post.
Sue Ann you talked about your Collie. Such smart dogs. My daughter has a Sheltie "Spirit" and although she had us to help her I really don't think she would have made it through without him. Such unconditional love our pets give us.  bear_wub  bear_wub
Thanks again everyone. bear_original

edie Bears by Edie
Southern Alberta
Posts: 2,068

Cyndee, your story is just heartbreaking. I can't even begin to imagine what you must have gone through.

Bubble-Up Bears Bubble Up Bears!
Murrieta, California
Posts: 1,804

Thanks Edie.
I didn't mean to take over this thread with my story. Sorry Becky.
You made some really good points and as sad as it is with what happened to the monkey happens everyday in real life to children as you and so many others know. It's just mind boggling to me why we would have kids and then do this. Yes many are mentally ill ,on drugs and such but many are not. Just last week we had another baby born alive and then put in a trash dumpsters. We here in California have a law like in many other states where you can take a new born up 3 days old and turn them in to a fire station, police station, church or hospital and leave it. No questions asked. No one will ask your name or whether or not you are a illegal resident. Yet still babies are dumped.
I like many could not have children yet adoption is made so difficult. Many of you have comment about Joseph. Here is even another tragic piece of what happened to him. He was removed from his biological parents at 3 months and placed in foster care. Because of prior children in the home being in the system he was available for adoption immediately. He should have never been in a long term foster home. Yet let alone one for 8 years. He should have gone to an adoptive home right away. If this had been the case his chances for a loving, caring home would have been better.
It's Just so hard to understand. I guess really there is no understanding.....

binglebears bingle bears
Upstate, NY
Posts: 1,559

I think you are right, Cyndee.  It's heart-breaking and there is just no way to understand it.
Hugs,
Cheryl

rowarrior The Littlest Thistle
Glasgow
Posts: 6,212

I, like Cheryl, have been wondering how to reply to this.  I'm so sorry for what the various people went through on this thread both children and parents.  A colleague of mine and his wife were only able to have 1 child, and they wanted to adopt more.  They fostered, and had a family they had staying with them regularly aged 3-6 when we first met (2 boys and a girl I think).  They really wanted to adopt them, but there kept being more and more red tape put in the way, and the authorities kept wanting to return them to the drug using mother.  She would have them for about 2 weeks, go off the deep end again and back out they would come, and back into foster care with my colleague's family.  This had dragged on for 2 years by the time he moved onto another company and I lost contact with him.  Every time they went through this cycle it would take weeks to get them to behave and be considerate and not running wild, and they would have got them to the point of being lovely kids each and every time social services whipped them away again.  His wife was getting more and more distressed by the situation, and was at the point of giving up altogether because she couldn't take the strain.  I often wonder if they ever made it through all the tape, and how that worked out, but I hope it went well in the end.  I fear it may not have done though  bear_sad

dangerbears Dangerbears
Wisconsin
Posts: 6,021
Website
Bubble-Up Bears wrote:

I didn't mean to take over this thread with my story.

No worries there. Your story, it turns out, is exactly what the thread is all about.

The monkey experiments stunned me because they were deliberate, repeated acts of cruelty. (Wasn't the lesson learned after the first monkey???) But the connection to neglected children was the ominous implication in the show I watched. In other words -- your story.

I appreciate your honesty and courage in sharing it with us.

Becky

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