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Shelli SHELLI MAKES
Chico, California
Posts: 9,939
Website

Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner Sponsor

Hi everyone.

I recently updated my website and several people here visited and posted feedback; I really appreciate that!  Thank you!

However, I'm noticing that it loads really slowly on my computer despite the fact that I optimized all photos for web use.  And I have DSL.

I'm wondering if it loads slowly for you, too -- especially people with slower connections or even dial-up.  I know there are some out there, still, who don't have access to DSL, or can't afford it.  It's important that my site (yours too, for that matter!) loads easily for all, otherwise it's just a frustration and a headache nobody wants.

Can you please check my site again and let me know whether it loads quickly, or whether you're having to wait for pages to load top to bottom, etc?

Thanks for your help in getting me this feedback I just can't get on my own.

Shel

http://www.potbellyarts.com

BootButtonBears BootButtonBears
Adelaide
Posts: 2,837
Website

Hi Shelley, I viewed every page on your website, and I thought they loaded very quickly indeed.  I have to say it is one of the most beautiful website around!!!!

Shelli SHELLI MAKES
Chico, California
Posts: 9,939
Website

Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner Sponsor

Christine, do you have DSL/high speed internet?  I'm assuming yes.  I supposedly do, too, but each page loads slowly from top to bottom when I view my site.  I thought that once the pages were in my cache they'd load quicker but they're still doing that top to bottom thing, which might indicate a problem I need to address for the sake of ALL visitors, and not just those with quick connections.

Thanks for checking back in... and for the compliments.  I'm really not trying to hit people up for kindness.  Just doing a speed check! bear_original

Aleta - The Silly Bear The Silly Bear
Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,119
Website

Hey there girlie,  bear_flower
I'm not getting a top to bottom thing.  I get an ever so slight delay with a couple of stragglers popping into place.  I'm high speed.  Well, that goes without saying doesn't it?  Ha!

Your site looks supercalifragilistic....and expialidoscious!!  You deserve a tiara!  Hey now, I know just where I can find one of those too.  Pieces of Flair(e)!! bear_grin  bear_grin  bear_grin

Warmest bear hugs,  :hug:
Aleta

Dreli-Bears Dreli-Bears
Salzburg
Posts: 720
Website

Hello Shel - I've visited your website (not for the first time!!!) and it loaded very quickly and I have to tell you - not only your bears are wonderful and marvelous creations, but also your website is very delightful for everyone.

I know your bears for a very long time - I'm a bear-maker for about 4 years and your website was one of the very first I ever visited and it's always a pleasure for me to watch your lovely bears.

Have a wonderful day and so many beary hugs from Austria - ciao ciao

bear_wub  bear_wub  bear_wub

Marlys Waggle Bears
So Cal Desert
Posts: 4,089

We have DSL, Shelli, and it loaded really quickly. I checked all pages. It does look great, but I liked your old site.

thumperantiques Newcastle, Ontario
Posts: 5,645

Hi Shelli.
    I'm at my daughters and she has high speed - everything looks wonderful and it loads immediately.  I love your new site, and may I say the little blue bear with the sad eyes is incredible.  He looks like he needs a big hug, which I would gladly give him if he were to come my way  bear_grin   What a sweetie.

                                                                                           hugs,

                                                                                           Brenda

SueAnn Past Time Bears
Double Oak, Texas
Posts: 22,132

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner Sponsor

Everything loads instantly for me and I have high speed cable modem.  When I clicked on your "Blog" button, it came up just a tad slower, but still fast enough.  Quick question.  On your blog, are the buttons at the top of the page on your logo . . . "Bears", "Art", "Dolls". . . supposed to link to those pages when you click on them?  If so, they aren't working for me.  Extremely nice job you did with your site!!!

Shelli SHELLI MAKES
Chico, California
Posts: 9,939
Website

Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner Sponsor

Sue Ann -- No, they're not buttons per se, although they certainly do look like buttons, don't they?  I should probably change that.  Don't know how to make clickable links in my blog header.  Not even sure I can with my subscriber level at TypePad.  Thanks for asking.

And everyone, thanks for checking out my site.  Makes me wonder why the heck it loads so slowly, top to bottom, on MY computer. ???  I want it to, ya know, just pop right up onscreen -- *poof!*  Like that!

Angela Angela's Bear Garden
St. Catharines, Ontario
Posts: 495

I have DSL and your site popped up pretty quick. Looks great!

danceswithteddybears Dances With Teddy Bears
Pacific Northwest
Posts: 697

Shel, your website does load a bit slow for me, but then so does everything.
I really need to join the 21st century.  I still slug along with dial-up. :(
PS  I love your website. bear_wub

Linda Benson Bears
Tasmania
Posts: 562

Hi Shelli,
Just popped over, I have a Satelite connection which is a fair bit slower anyway  bear_rolleyes  bear_rolleyes , but I did feel that your site was slower than most. I got the top to bottom thing happening. I didn't stay long, wanted to get back and write this comment, but what I saw looked lovely, the colours and backgrounds are so appealing. I really like those two winged bears on your entry page.  bear_wub  bear_wub

Us Bears Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,479

The site looks great!  You have a great eye for design!   :cool:

Everything works pretty much the way one would expect.  If you click on an icon, you are taken to the correct place.
I found no dead links or broken pages.  The site WORKS correctly.  But as you say, it is can be very slow to load.

I have a fast DSL connection (3 MB/sec) and a fast computer.  (2.8 GHz.  Dual quad-core processor.)
For me there will be few problems loading the site.  But for dial-up users or people with older computers, I can see where it would be slow.

First, I don't know this program, "Coffee Cup," that you used to design the site is.  I've never heard of it.
Part of your problem seems to stem from the way this program makes your site.

When you go to the "Entry" page, notice how the rose colored background loads very quickly but the pictures of the Bears takes a long time.
That is because you are loading a tiled background image then load the image of the Bears over top.  That Bear picture is VERY large.
It is 1,024 X 768 pixels and its resolution is 96 pixels per inch.  The file size of that one picture is 492 KB!  That's HUGE!

Just that one picture will take nearly 3 minutes to load if you are using a dial-up connection to access the site.
You should be able to cut that picture down to 150 KB or less if you try and you won't lose any noticeable amount of quality.  Properly done, you should be able to cut that page load time down to 15-30 seconds if even if the user only has a good dial-up connection.

Do you see the picture of "Cirrus" the Bear in my avatar?  That picture is 36 KB!
That's very small for the quality of that image.  Don't let anybody tell you that your pictures have to be super-callifragilistically huge if you want them to look good.  That's a bunch of fluff!  You can make good looking images if you try hard enough.

There are several places in the site where I noticed similar things.  The user has to load several pictures that are layered one over top of the other in order to see a given page.  The result LOOKs very nice!  In fact it's one of the nicest looking Teddy Bear sites I've seen.  But I'm sorry to say that it isn't written very well from an efficiency standpoint.

One thing that you might also notice is that the SECOND time you visit the site it appears to run much faster.
That is because your web browser has cached most of the pictures so that the second and subsequent time(s) thereafter, they are retrieved from the hard drive instead of the internet.  That's good for people with fast computers and large hard drives but it's bad for people with old, slow computers with small hard drives.  They won't have the space to store the data and their computer might have trouble sorting it all out when it comes time to display it again.

Try to cut your images down in size.  Reduce the pixel count from 96 to 72 ppi if you can.  Anything higher than 72 ppi does nothing but slow the site down.  Try to store your images as GIF's or PNG's if you can.  Use transparent backgrounds when you can.  Cut the number of colors in the GIF/PNG color space down to 128 instead of 256.  Shut off dithering wherever practical and crop your pictures as close to the main subject area as you dare.

Reducing the size of those images will go a long way to speeding up the site.   :thumbsup:

Oh!  BTW...
I love to eat broccoli!  I'll eat all your broccoli if you eat all my green beans!   bear_grin

cjsmum Happy Little Souls
Sydney
Posts: 230

Hi Shel,
I'm on cable broadband, and it works great for me, I love the style of your site too! I'm a sucker for the wing-ed bears  bear_wub


Mel

sheilaleigh Sheila Leigh
Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 299

Hi Shelli,

I just visited your website and it loaded fast for me.  I think your website looks wonderful.

hugs, sheila

Daphne Back Road Bears
Laconia, NH USA
Posts: 6,568

Hi Shel,

I have DSL. I just visited your site for the 3rd or 4th time on this computer and every time it takes about 6-8 seconds to load. Compared to dial-up days that FAST!!! But no, it doesn't pop right up. Nor does it do the top to bottom thingy. It's simply taking time to load each tile and the overlaping images. Sort of like watching puzzle pieces magically appear and eventually form a complete image. Background of course comes up immediately. So, this process may be something completely different from what you are experiencing.

Very pretty... though I too liked your old one! Last thing you want to hear after all the work you put into this one, I know! They are both gorgeous!!

:hug:
D

Shelli SHELLI MAKES
Chico, California
Posts: 9,939
Website

Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner Sponsor

Hey everyone; thanks for all the great feedback.  I appreciate it so much, you just don't know how grateful I am.  Thank you!!

A few responses:

First... I liked the last version of my site, too -- thanks to those of you who miss it -- but it was almost too elegant and sophisticated for me and my bears.  We're both more comfy/casual/rustic than that whole Tiffany-blue with white flowers site represented.  So while it was pretty, I think this one "fits" better.  But thanks for liking the other one, too!

Second... Coffee Cup.  (sigh)  I'm very ambivalent about Coffee Cup's "Visual Site Designer" which is the software I use for site design.  It's a WYSIWYG program that I got for cheap and learned years ago when I was first starting out, so it's familiar to me, thus easy to use.  And at this point, I don't have the time, money, energy, or interest to relearn a new program like DreamWeaver, which would frankly be ideal.  If I were swimming in cash, and had a week to learn it, that is.

Coffee Cup is fantastic in many ways -- you don't need to know a lick of html to use it -- but very limiting in others.  For one thing, you can't save as html.  Seriously!  It saves your files in a proprietary format (.vnu) which allows the Coffee Cup software to assemble and upload, via proprietary FTP protocol.  The fact that it does everything FOR you is great when you're starting out and don't know how to do such things for yourself.  Once your skills become more advanced, however, it becomes a disadvantage that the software has so much control, and the user so little.  I know how to hand code a little bit, and how to use an FTP client, and I'd like to be able to manipulate code directly in places, and with this software, I simply can't.  Hands tied.

Second... unlike programs like DreamWeaver or Frontpage, there is literally NO WAY to toggle between actual site appearance, and coding.  All I can ever see, at any point, while in CC VSD is the WYSIWYG "actual appearance."  The code is completely invisible.

Also, with this software, you literally can NOT use transparent files types.  Weird, weird, weird!  It doesn't accept .gifs or .pngs, at least in the version I own (I think there may be a newer version by now.)   I can only use .jpg files, so all images must be essentially "square."  If you know anything about transparent vs. non transparent files types you'll know what I'm talking about here, and how crippling this can be.  Basically, if I want an image to appear to float on a background, such as on my entry page, I have to do what US BEARS described; I literally have to load a square photo on top of a background.  Aggravating, when I know other programs would simply allow me to drop a .gif or .png into place.  Which is what I do when I work in Photoshop to create logos and graphics.

Last, the CC VSD software writes a lot of JavaScript into my coding, which I know nothing about and can't access directly anyway. 

On other notes, such as my entry photo being 96dpi -- Good catch!  I missed that, and it's just user error on my part.  I know to size my web images to 72dpi and always flatten and optimize them for web use, although I usually choose the larger file size option for greater clarity.  I like a crisp photo!  I probably forgot to flatten that image before saving it.  I'll check into that; thanks! 

My site is very image heavy and uses almost no "text," which was necessary so that I could get the look I wanted using a program which doesn't allow transparent files to overlay background images.  I think that's the problem right there.  Too many images -- period.  Poopy.  The whole reason I asked for feedback on this is that I already know -- as US BEARS also mentioned -- that once stored in my cache, my pages should load lightning fast. And they're not doing that.  Which is a puzzlement.

Maybe I need to go back to the drawing board...  Poopy again.   bear_flower

Us Bears Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,479

Everybody misses one now and then.  Right?   bear_whistle

"Coffee Cup" sounds like a great program for beginners but not for people who want to do anything more than a basic website.

Is there any way you can get the educational discount?  Adobe's education program is pretty good.  You can get the entire Adobe CS4 Premium suite for about $600, compared to the usual $1,700.  They just recently ended a promotion this past Christmas where, if you bought a qualifying hardware package, you only paid about $300 for the CS4 Standard package.  I think the CS4 Premium was only $50 or $100 more.

It's still not cheap but, if you can swing it, $400 or $600 is a darn-sight better than paying the full price!

NIKKEL Nikkel Bears
Orient Point, NSW
Posts: 441

Shelli - 1stly, your website is beautiful - congrats!

Just a thought with the top to bottom thing - check your internet speed.  Your slow speed (especially later in the month might be due to being 'shaped'.  We had 512 speed download (5gB download per month - based on 1gB peak and 4gb offpeak - how charming!  offpeak is between 12am and noon!  We are all at work then so most of our downloads were happening during the peak hours of noon to 12am - our allowance per month was 1gb.  Let me tell you, it doesn't take long to exceed that - especially when you have offspring who like to download music!)

Shaped means that once you reach your maximum allowance, the speed of your internet is 'shaped' or 'slowed down'.  Ours slowed down to 256 - half the speed of our usual allowance!  Once you reach your monthly anniversary, a new month starts and it goes back to your normal speed, and so on. 

I changed my speed to 1500 (5gb peak/10000 offpeak per month) - and haven't looked back - everything downloads in the blink of an eye!  (footnote:  well yes, it does cost a bit more, but what price do you put on daily frustration!)

Marg  bear_original

Tami E Tami Eveslage Original Teddy Bears
Milford Ohio
Posts: 2,367

First off----WOW!  bear_wub I love the new site. I think it suits your work perfectly!!!! (Probably because it IS your work!)

For me it loaded like it did for Aleta "I get an ever so slight delay with a couple of stragglers popping into place" Sorry for borrowing your words without asking Aleta :redface:  but it was a perfect description!!! bear_grin

Jaina Emo Bears
Dudley, West Mids
Posts: 862

I love your site bear_grin

It loaded pretty fast for me; although i did get the top to bottom effect you are describing, it didn't bother me and things appeared pretty fast.  bear_thumb

Shelli SHELLI MAKES
Chico, California
Posts: 9,939
Website

Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner Sponsor

US BEARS -- Good idea, in theory, about educational discounts.  You are a fountainhead of terrific and helpful information, really; thank you.  Interestingly, I actually currently have a college student at home (stepson Zack) who could buy such a bundle for me using his student ID locally.  The problem is that, even though $600 is practically free when compared to $1700, it's a lot of money when compared to $0.00, which is what I would otherwise spend for website software at this time, since I already have such software (flawed and limited as it is) available. 

To further defend my pauperism... I went to Europe last summer (Soooo pricey!  Low dollar!); just exited a huge Christmas holiday; and have a cat going in for surgery in two weeks, possibly for hemangiosarcoma (diagnosis to follow tumor removal/biopsy of tissue), which is gonna spend me out of house and home, not just for the surgery, but probably for chemo/aftercare (sigh; poor kitty.)  In short, it's just not a great time for a $600 outlay of cash when it's not a dire necessity.  However, I do accept donations, if anyone wants to buy the program FOR me.  Anyone?  Anyone?  lol... !!

NIKKEL -- I'll have to reread your suggestion about ten or more times because that's out of my area of even slight expertise, but it sounds like you may be on to something there.  Thanks for pointing out the previously unknown!

Tami, Jaina... Just plain THANKS for the kind words and feedback.  I'm pondering what to do about all this.  Maybe another resdesign, with fewer photos.  Blarg.   bear_tongue

Us Bears Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,479

I know what you mean.  It took me over a year of "cookie jar economics" to get the money to buy the setup I have now.

I have all the software to do graphics and video but I did not get the web page software.  Frankly I just don't have much call for it.
90% of the time when I want a web page I write them by hand.  I rarely have need for one or two pages of "This is who we are and here is what we do..." information.  I will use templates to get me started then finish them off by hand.  Very infrequently do I ever need more than that.

You don't really need to redesign the site.  Just tweak it.
Anybody who has DSL probably won't notice.  It's just the dial-up users  and people with slow computers that will have problems.
You're good for now.  It's better to get everything working now then to make "adjustments" as you go.  Otherwise you could end up "off-line" for longer than you can afford to be.

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