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desertmountainbearI think many such as myself didn't know who it was until the link was given out.
This is why I asked Joanne.
I myself didn't want to accuse her of anything nor make her feel bad.
I know Cyndee, and I know that the discussion started innocently enough, and it was right that the link was given by PM, and the lady's name was not discussed here., maybe it should have all been discussed via PM. I am not pointing fingers at anyone. I do think it did get kind of personal here, and I can tell now that it has hurt her, that makes me feel bad.
Joanne
Joanne, I to feel terrible to think we hurt this lady. I personally am sorry 
You're right the discussion started about the concept ,not any certain person. I think we are just so passionate about our bears that we just got defensive of our creations. For me, it was just the thought that this was a practice done without consent, and might insult the original artist, or trick collectors- that would be a different can of worms. But, if this lady or any others doing the reborning and the original artist are in agreement with the process, and everything is clearly explained to collectors, then who are we to judge.
I feel bad that someone's feelings may have been hurt also, it is just something that is so dear and close to our hearts i am sure we all went on the defensive, I know I did.
I apologize if anything I have said has caused hurt or pain to anyone in any way, time to climb back in my hole now.
hugs,
Krista
Posts: 94Thank you Cyndee for the link sent 
After looked at the web site I think this lady should not blush at all and should not been hurt because work she has made on the pink bear gives a totally different style and a great change.
From a teddy bear that had a very simple expression she found the way to give one, which is an art because it more difficult to correct mistakes instead of making them.
So, she really gave the bear an interest and I totaly approve this kind of work in the condition and situation I have read on the web site.
Congratulation for the work done if it ever comes to the lady's ears.
Eric
PennsylvaniaThe Bears and I don't condemn people. Only their actions.
We're sure the "reborning" lady is nice but we still don't like the idea of changing a Teddy Bear unless the Bear was made for the purpose.
I think we were very clear about the grounds for our belief.
First, you are tinkering with the original artist's expression of emotion via the symbolism of Teddy Bears.
Second, the Bears themselves don't like being forced to have operations they don't want!
If you want to make new clothes for a Bear, that's acceptable as long as you preserve the original clothes.
Some Bears like to have new clothes every once in a while! ;)
If you are repairing a Bear that's okay, provided you try your best to preserve the original intent of the artist or designer.
As I said before, a Teddy Bear is a tangible expression of another person's emotions.
That expression flows from the creator/designer, through the hands of the person who originally makes the Bear, to the person who adopts the Bear then on to the person who receives the Bear as a gift.
Bears are a very important expression of love, affection and many other emotions.
When somebody "reborns" a Bear they destroy that chain of emotional expression that flows from the maker to the recipient.
We hope the "reborning" lady understands what we're talking about, here. We're not getting down on her, personally. We are explaining what we don't like.
Yes, when you get right down to it, Teddy Bears are just fabric and fluff. The Bears know that and they accept their lot. What they expect from humans is to understand the emotion and symbolism that they stand for.
Teddy Bears stand for kindness. "Reborning" a Bear without permission isn't a very kind thing to do. Is it?
From the start of this discussion I never pointed fingers..there is far more than one person doing this type of thing to be honest , there are other ways to re-born a bear ...you could do it by buying a pattern and putting your slant on it, then selling it and so I intentionally didn't post any links. I was never pointing fingers ...and God knows have had enough fingers pointed to know how awful it is. I asked a question about re-borning of artist teddies and all the implications. Never has there been any intent to hurt or anything of the sort. Unless we don't talk about bear making at all someone, somewhere will think that they are central to the discussion. So is that the way forward ...? Never to mention bears or anything which might stimulate discussion...because a friend of a friend might read it? The thing is if it is an unacceptable practice then whoever does it will be hurt by a discussion about it...same as if we discuss copying...SOMEONE will be hurt by what is being said.
I still think it's the wrong thing to do...that's my personal opinion...but you know what, this lady makes really nice bears and I am sorry I even raised the topic...me and my mouth!!
Faux Paw BearsAnother perspective.
These bears were reborn with the original artists permission in writing. (that should address the two objections regarding copyright and artistic integrity) Without reborning, these bears would have been consigned to the dustbin...unloved, ungifted, end of story. She gave them new life, beauty, personality AND value...something without which, they would not also have been cherished...I just don't see anything wrong with that WHEN (and here is the big provison) the alternative was oblivion.
When I get to be eighty and am smelly, with loose joints (already have a couple) and come to think of it I am beginning to resemble one of those bears; I wish someone could REBORN me. I'll give them my written permission.
Pat
PennsylvaniaI apologize if anything I have said has caused hurt or pain to anyone in any way, time to climb back in my hole now.
I don't think you or anybody else have a thing to feel bad about.
Everybody here expressed their opinion rationally. There was no name calling. Although some were animated in their replies, the whole conversation remained civil.
The person or persons who are the subject of this discussion have the right to write a rebuttal. In fact, others here have come to their defense.
Other people, not directly associated with the person(s) being discussed have given their opinions to the contrary as well.
I think this is a very GOOD conversation that brings an important subject to light. 
What is the worth of a web forum where people can't talk about their opinions?
Bears by EdieI also don't think anything was said here to make any ONE person feel bad - we WERE just discussing a practice that we had stumbled upon and I think it was mentioned several times that it was not just ONE particular person doing this.
I did PM links of ones that I had seen - without knowing if this was even the same incident originally referred to as people were curious to see what "Reborning" a bear was all about. If the lady is feeling badly after hearing what we have discussed here she needs to ask herself "why" - if she has the orginal artist's approval and feels good about what she is doing and has a market for this work - why on earth would she feel badly????? Just because some people disagree with what she is doing???? One can not possibly please everyone all the time! And she certainly should not feel that this discussion was in ANY way an attack on her - it WAS and IS just a DISCUSSION!
Plus most of this discussion really wasn't even about her - it was more about how WE would feel to have our creations "reborn" by someone else WITHOUT our approval - which isn't what she is doing - as far as I know this lady hasn't "reborn" bears by ANY of the artists taking place in this discussion.
Bubble Up Bears!I think maybe many thought as I did the bears were being altered because they smelled.
In my minds eye I saw a OOAK Artist Bear being mutilated for a lack of a better word. I recieved the link yesterday as many did and once viewing her "before and after" I saw bears that to me looked like they were in need of a lot of things not just a wash. They looked as if they had seen many days being loved by a child. Perhaps too being left at the bottom of a toy box for many years. Not a bear placed in a cabinet and displayed only. Not that this changes how any of you artist feel. I don't know. I only collect and none of my artist bears are in that condition.
Many points have been made here and I'm sure it wasn't anyone's intent to point a finger at this particular artist and possibly hurt her feelings. As it has been pointed out the original question was how do you feel about re-borning and I think many can't help but to get emotional. Many put their heart and soul in to their creations and take it personal.
I will personally apologize to the artist in question if anything I said hurt her in anyway.
Bubble Up Bears!Good point Edie.
In going over many of the post I don't see anyone openly attacking a particular artist. I asked for the link and recieved many PM's with links that very well may not all be the same. I also gave out links. I'm glad I did check it out because it wasn't what I had thought as I said before. Not that that changes how an artists' feels. I hope we can discuss it in a forum without anyone feeling attacked. :)
If we were all on the "View" we would be paid BIG BUCKS to discuss like this!!! 
PennsylvaniaIf the original artist gave her permission we can understand that. But she'd better talk to the Bears first and ask them how they feel.
If the Bears were old and needed to go to the Bear doctor, we're okay with that.
And, just for discussion's sake, there's no reason a Bear should ever have to live at the bottom of a toy box!
Bears realize that children grow up and they don't need their Bears to keep them company anymore. But a Bear will patiently sit on a shelf or on the back of a dresser for any given period of time. They look at it as a kind of retirement. They spent all that time looking after their humans. They deserve a rest.
What would REALLY make a Bear happy is if that child would pass him down to a younger brother or sister... Better yet, pass him down to one of their children. Multi-generational Bears are the superstars of the Bear world!
So, if somebody is "reborning" Bears so that they may have chance to take care of another human, that is an admirable thing to do.
Regardless of what is done to them or why, the person "reborning" the Bears really needs to understand what the meaning an symbolism of a Teddy Bear is. If she's faithful to that we can give her a pass.
Hi
Sorry to sound confused but are you a 'bear' or a 'human'? I don't mean to sound cheeky I just want to make sure I am reading your posts correctly. :redface: :redface: 
Posts: 94Hi
US bears
Sorry to sound confused but are you a 'bear' or a 'human'? I don't mean to sound cheeky I just want to make sure I am reading your posts correctly. :redface: :redface:
Only god knows :crackup: :crackup:
Eric
Pennsylvania*** This is the human talking. ***
The previous post, above, was from the Bears.
There are humans and Bears here. When we are sleeping or out of the house, Bears have the run of the place.
We let them watch TV and use the computer to play on the internet whenever they want but they must promise to keep out of trouble.
It does get kind of hectic when there are only two humans but there are 1,000 Bears!
To 'US' bears.......
Thankyou for clearing that up.
You obviously live with very intelligent bears who can use computers. ( I shall have to get my rabbits trained) I hope they help out with the cleaning and cooking !!!!!!
In future therefore I will pay more attention to what the BEAR is saying and listen to the opinions of 'reborning' from THEIR point of view.
I actually think that a lot of bears could be 'reborn'........ by adding a bobtail, long ears and whiskers.......... :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: 
...............................I've crossed the line now haven't I ???? :redface:
PennsylvaniaWabbits!? Never!
Oh, oh! Watch out! You've hit a nerve!
Tickled Pink Bears Hi All,
I saw this original post earlier this week, but then was away from it till now. I don't know much about
this subject. I've only seen what people do with "store bears" bought off the shelf.
Might someone PM a link, I would like to see what these "re-born" bears are. (just wanna take a peak)
Thanks 
