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toadbriar Sep 19, 2006

I seem to recall the term over-felting but I'm not sure what it means really. I don't want to
wreck something by taking it too far - how do you know when it is as firm & smooth as it is
gonna get, & what happens if you keep going?

thanks!
-Kim

Judi Sep 19, 2006

That's a really good question Kim.  I have heard of the fibers breaking when needle felting too firmly but I have not experienced that myself.  I like to felt until my work is very very firm...like a thick naval orange feel.  I don't want someone to be able to squeeze and change the shape of my felted pieces.

I am believer in experimenting so maybe one of us should try to "over felt" and see what happens.

Anyone else know?

purelyneysa Sep 19, 2006

Good Morning,

I've heard you can over felt too. When you do the wool breaks up as the fibers are all chopped or cut up by the needles. It's never happened to me and I felt hard.

Congratulations to the ladies with critters going for the URSA Awards. My Needle Felting Column on www.Bearsandbuds.com is back up and running. It's for beginners now, next month my first project will start.

Neysa

rkr4cds Sep 20, 2006

I haven't heard of over felting in dry work; wet felters use the term over-felting in referring to working the surface further after the main felting was done. It was for adding details or working in certain fibers (breed, color, texture) into the surface of their wet felted piece.

It would be pretty hard to over work dry felting, i.e., breaking the fibers by needling. The first thing you'd notice is that it would be very hard to push the needle into the compacting fibers, leading you to using a smaller needle size, which have smaller barbs and even less likely to break/cut fiber.

The 3 biggest things that will cause the fibers to break are
- weak inferior fibers to begin with - there is a LOT of that being sold!!!
- using a needle brand that has 'cut' rather than 'formed' barbs.
- using a relatively large needle (with its larger barbs) like a 32 or 36 on finer fibers.
The needles used to begin a project should match the fiber micron gauge and then go down in size as the fiber is compacted. This comes with experience and the advice of a knowledable needle retailer & NFer.

Has this happened to you Kim? I'd be happy to examine a pinch of any wool if this happens to anyone.

rkr4cds Sep 20, 2006

how do you know when it is as firm & smooth as it is
gonna get, & what happens if you keep going?

I didn't address this - it's as firm and smooth as it's going to get when the fuzzies are gone (though there are some breeds that just won't go smooth) and a piece will not depress when you squeeze it between your thuinb and finger. As Judi said, you don't want a piece to be changed through just handling. I work hard to get certain postures and expressions in my work and don't want them to change!

Thre are some finer breed fibers that will just not be as 'hard' as others when finished, even though they are totally smooth and firm to the touch and as compacted as they'll ever become.

toadbriar Sep 20, 2006

it hasn't happened to me, thankfully! I am using that lovely merino-rambouillet batt you've recommended in the
past Bobbi It is far & away the finest, softest  wool I've used. But I was not sure how hard, rigid & firm
I could expect it to get. It's so soft, like a warm cloud! I just used it for some life-size cat ears, so it's not like
I have a full round shape. But it got pretty solid & did all I'd hoped it would do. I just wondered what would happen
if I pushed it even further. I'm nosy like that 

rkr4cds Sep 20, 2006

Ah, that's Marr Haven's  Rambo/Merino mix? Lovely stuff (the avatar STALKING - 2.25" long is used) but not the finest fiber. Breeds like Polworth, Polypay and Cormo are even more 'cloud-like'! They make great surface treatments of entire sculptures or used totally for the mini-verging-on-micro sizes, where the other breeds's fibers are just too long to work in easily.

But since you've got that particular fiber, you'll know what I mean by trying to start the work with a 32 or 36; they're just too large to start with. 38 and going to 40 & 42 is a better match of breed to needle size.

tuppies teddies Sep 21, 2006

Am so interested in this needlefelting. I have just finished my first bear and know I have a long way to go.   Here a couple of snaps but remember it is my first one and I have lots of improvements to learn..

toadbriar Sep 27, 2006

I overfelted    :redface:

Trying to get some cat ears as hard & dense as possible, the bases started getting SQUISHIER instead of harder.
I could sink my finger into the softened felt. & pull it out in little chunks, exactly like when the dog is shedding his
coat. So I pulled the entire ear off - WAY too easily!

   

I am taking a nice hot shower & then having a go at some new ears after some mint chip ice cream!

I was using a single 42 needle on the merino-rambo, by the way.

I hope this saves someone else some trouble!

rkr4cds Sep 27, 2006

I was using a single 42 needle on the merino-rambo, by the way.

This is Marr Haven's Mer/Rambo mix? That seems almost impoosible to believe - not that I doubt you! But that little avatar bear on the left is 1.75" tall at his rump and he's got very tiny ears. They went together and needled on with No Prob.He is rock hard and it's their same fiber. And #42 is about the only size I can get pushed in anymore.
I've never had a problem with the Marr's fibers and I've had perhaps 4 different batches over a 4 year period.

What other sizes of needles did you use? Could it possibly have been dmaged by the barbs of the beginning sizes? And were these Foster's needles? I have some by other companies that had the barbs literally cut into the sides, leaving sharp edges like knives.

Foster's are called 'formed barbs' for this very reason: all surfaces are beveled and just don't cut fibers unless they are week / damaged fibers to begin with; then they are breaking, not being cut.
LMK!!

toadbriar Sep 27, 2006

I only used the 42 needle - it's only some life-size cat ears I was making.
Not foster's needles! Random ones boughten off of ebay. & yes - the barbs
seem quite sharply cut in.

Where can I buy the Foster's needles?

rkr4cds Sep 27, 2006

Sorry if this looks like an ad - I think it is. See that Signature under my name? My company sells them write for sizes & pricing - the best to fellow listees.

rkr4cds Sep 27, 2006

OMG - #42 on a LIFE-SIZED cat?? You ARE a glutton for punishment. I'd've started the mer/ramb with 38 T or S. 36 is too coarse on that finer fiber. But 42 must've taken you FOREVER!!!!

Please read Foster's site for the info. I'm supposed to be packing for a flight in a few hours and cannot write all of their info. They sell to distributrors (ppl like me) only in boxs of 1000 per size minimum so it's a real investment to make intitially. I retail for more but fellow listees get a good break.

http://www.fosterneedleusa.com/prd/index.html
And click on each listed style for the info.

toadbriar Sep 27, 2006

hahahahahah only the EARS are felted. (well, and the toes)
the rest is mohair 
Thank you, I will absolutely be ordering needles after sleep!

toadbriar Sep 27, 2006

I was more trying to get this certain section of the felt (outside base of ear) to flatten down
towards the head a little more if possible. Not possible after all, lol

If you're trying to kill it with the nice needles, it may well be much harder to do.

I hope I don't find out  :crackup:

matilda Oct 5, 2006

I use needles from 4 different suppliers. They are all different and I have found a job for each of them.  The more variety in sizes will give you more scope  for sculpting.
I am also using a variety of fibre. They all give diferent effects and felt up differently. Some firmer than some and others all hairy etc.............experiment experiment experiment............
I have just ordered new fibre and different needles to those I already have. There is a wonderful supplier and expert in NZ. She has the most amazing knowledge.

rkr4cds Oct 6, 2006

Hi Wendy,

Curious about who you mean in NZ? LLLL  Wondering if I know her????