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Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner SponsorApr 29, 2005

I'm thinking I might like to try using pencils for shading my bears and wondered if anyone has had experience with using them?  Sometimes I want a very precise line I can carefully control and while my oil paints work beautifully and are easy to blend and very slow to dry (meaning I have a very long "working time" with them), occasionally I want more control than a brush can allow simply due to how it's used.

I'm interested in hearing about specific brands/types of pencils you have used... how to apply the pencil... AND your impression of how lasting and true the colors might be in using pencils.

Thanks!

Winney Apr 29, 2005

Good topic Shelli ...me toooooooooo ......... Winney

Dilu Apr 30, 2005

Hi.  For quilting I used "watercolor" pencils, that gave good clean lines, and when I wanted to smoosh the colors I used an almost dry, or bearly wet brush.  Then I ironed the fabric for permeability.  I think it is something I should experiment  in with this medium.  The ones I used are "Creatacolor by B.F.Hirm of Austria.  Also in quilting we have very small "irons"- the head of the iron is about  1.5" long on a handle that is easy to manipulate.  I don't see why it couldn't be used for bearing too.  I'm not proud, I'll steal techniques from any medium I have dealt in.  Hope this idea helps you. 

Dilu

P.S. The pencils are pricey-BUT- they last a long long time and look at what we spend on this obsession anyway!

Delartful Bears Apr 30, 2005

Hi Shelli,

I just wanted to let you know that I use Prisma Colour pencils on my bears - so the shading I do is all done by pencils.  Primas are great because they will show up on dark coloured material.

Danni

Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner SponsorApr 30, 2005

Hi.  For quilting I used "watercolor" pencils, that gave good clean lines, and when I wanted to smoosh the colors I used an almost dry, or bearly wet brush.

Danni and Dilu, thanks for these pointers. 

Do you think, Dilu, that these pencils are truly waterproof if they are "watercolor" type pencils?  Is it the heat setting that makes them permanent?  Are the "professional" type, "regular" pencils more lasting?  What?  Help!

I guess my fear, because I work very slowly and carefully, is investing too much time in a pencil-attempt on a face, only to have it smudge off or wipe away at some point, which would be the end of 2-3 days of work.  That's what's still holding me back.

More thoughts on this...?  Anyone out there willing to guarantee me in writing on this public board that pencils won't smudge off? 

Judi Apr 30, 2005

I don't know about the color fastness of colored pencils ,Shelli, but I heat set my paint that I airbrush on my bears and this makes it permanent.  I know the last thing you want is the colors to rub off. 
I think colored pencils would be great if they could be made to be permanent. hhhhhmmmmm

Winney Apr 30, 2005

Hmmm, this need some real research...might go to the different brand named art pencil web sites and read up on just what their pencils do. I should think some types could be heat set with a blow dryer ? Of course they probably don't know what to advise for bears, but.............

Idea !!! What do fabric doll users use ? They have to not only be color fast but after all that work they would not want any of it to rub off .... A good place to ask is at Crafty Cottage or Sisters and Daughters web sites...Winney

Judi Apr 30, 2005

Great idea Winney...and Yes, a hair dryer is safe for bears...I just make sure I place my hand inbetween several times to check that is is not too hot.  You also want to keep the dryer moving at all times.   

Let us know what you find out about the pencils.  Thanks!

Dilu Apr 30, 2005

I do have confidence in the pencils, I've washed the quilts I used them on.  I don't plan on washing the teddies.  I didn't mean permeability (oops,) I meant permability. 

I'd like to get into the airbrushing, and suppose I will eventually.  In the mean time I have the poor cousin option. 

Isn't this fun?  New stuff to work with and try.  Life is really fuzzy great!

Dilu

Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner SponsorMay 1, 2005

Just a heads up that I worked on and completed a bear today start to finish (working all day in between posts; man are my hands tired) and used my new colored pencils around the eyes.  VERY PRECISE DETAILING was possible, and created a wonderful end result.  I tried to "smudge" these purposefully to see how well they would stay put and I couldn't do much more than smudge the tiniest, almost imperceptible bit.  I tried both a blending stump and a blending pencil for softening the effect and found both worked well, although the pencil offered more control.

Thanks everyone for your tips and pointers!  I think this is a medium I will continue to use in all my bears from here on out.

This bear will go to Gallerie Regards in France; I'll post pictures and details on BEARS FOR SALE as soon as I can, hopefully (if I get a good shot) one closeup of the eye area where the pencils came in such handy for that fine-line work that's been hard for me to manage with a brush and oil paints.

Ooh... and I also used glass beads for the first time (feet, "hands," and belly) and had to SLAM that bear down hard to get the flat feet effect necessary for standing.  So, Sue Ann, you're not alone in your position as the board's resident "teddy bear slammer."

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner SponsorMay 1, 2005

Ooooh, Shelli . . . I really needed some company in the bear slammin' department . . . thanks much for joining me!  I DO like filling the feet with beads for standing, but the fact is - I just can't get the bear to stand alone unless I get a little firm with my determination to make it behave!   Really looking forward to seeing your pencil shaded bear . . . I KNOW that it will be a honey! 

Winney May 1, 2005

Can anyone tell me ; The pencils work on the fabric backing  but what about on the fur ?

Danni said; "Prisma Color" shows up on dark fabric...that is a plus. Are they permanant ?

Dilu uses "Creatacolor " by B.F.Hirm of Austria....on quilt fabric and it is washable ( permanant).Can we buy them in the USA ?

Shelli, what brand did you end up getting ? ................... Winney

Laura Lynn Banner SponsorMay 1, 2005

Oh awesome Shelli!  Can I ask which brand you ended up buying?  (I may have missed a previous post if you already mentioned that :).  Also...I wanted to say that Olive is just a doll!  I tried to look for her at Gallerie Regards in France and I couldn't find YOUR bears?  Am I looking in the wrong place?

And wow!  EVeryone's avatars are looking great!

Dilu May 1, 2005

Hi Shelli

Because of where I live I use the internet for everything except groceries.  In other words I got them on line- that makes it difficult if you wanted to talk to someone about them,  The ones I got came in different sizes.  But since I was a 64 crayola kid, I decided when I ordered these, that more is better.  Isn't it?

Dilu

Actually I wish I could do groceries on line too, but the stores that do it are tooooo far away.

Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner SponsorMay 1, 2005

Hi all.  Hope you're having a happy Sunday.

Addressing a few comments (above)...

PENCILS
I bought PrismaColor pencils -- individually sold -- in a variety of neutral/brown/gray/black/white tones.  They cost, like, a buck or two a piece.  Can't remember exactly; am too lazy to pull the already-filed receipt back out of my "business expenses" folder. 

I also bought a set (2) of blending pencils, also by PrismaColor. 

They worked beautifully, being very waxy and blendable, and laying down a very rich color swath on my woven fabric backing.  They did NOT break off in little chunks, like eyepencils sometimes do (don't you hate that?!?), which was one of my fears.  THey also worked well coloring directly onto embroidery floss... so long as one remembers to follow the nap of the threads and not try to "color" on them in a cross-wise fashion.  That might really muck things up!

They also color the pile, fairly well and quickly, but in THIS bearmaker's opinion it is a much more difficult, time-consuming way to color pile than oil paints (or another shading technique.)  However, keep in mind that I do a LOT of shading, on a fairly big-sized bear (this guinea pig gal ended up about 12 inches and has a really big head!)  If you're just looking to create a halo of dark color and softness around an eye or nose, or if you're doing minis, I think they'd be wonderful.  I really enjoyed the precision and control that the pencil -- vs. the paintbrush, which I'd been using exclusively before -- offered.

OLIVE
She will be at Gallerie Regards but she's the first piece to go there (along with just-completed bear who might end up being named "Precious") so I'm not on the site yet.  Coming in May.  Shoulda been there in March, but life intervened... and gallery owner Evelyne is, thankfully, a very understanding and gracious lady! 

Thank you for checking in on her and on my work there!

Winney May 2, 2005

Thank's for sharing that info. Shelli. So glad you found what you needed .
My research thru some doll making  books and magazines gave me some surprising results.
Here's is a list of paints and pens  used in doll making;

Delta Brush-on Fabric Dyes ...use a paint brush.

Y & C Fabric Mate ...brush tip pens.

Micron Pigma Pens...can be rubbed to soften .

Sakura Pigma Fabric Pens ...
Sakura Pigma Brush Pens...

Most often I found used on cloth dolls was... Berol Prisma Color Pencils
                                                                Berol Fabric Paints

What really surprised me was a well know artist used  Crayons...yes, they are permanant ( I did not know that ).
No specific brand, she said she loved the 64 color Crayon box.

Another unusual media used was Gel Pens to make exotic make up and brows ! Wonder how we could use this on teddies...perhaps some Halloween teds ? Oh...how about the eye lids ?

I did pick up this too....Detail unpainted Fimo with Pigma Pens.
I did not check with the quilt sites...I think this is enough to tell me I will buy Berol Prisma Color pencils and maybe try the fabric paints for fun....Winney

Laura Lynn Banner SponsorMay 2, 2005

Oh Thanks Shelli!  I didn't read very thoroughly  :rolleyes:....  I'll keep watching for when she DOES go up for adopton  

And Winney!!  I use the gel pens all the time... but for drawing out my patterns!  The pastel ones are great for the dark backings.  I found that the Fray Check does NOT cause the gel pens to bleed.  The fray check caused even my permanent markers to bleed.  I found that Pentel was the best brand.... Never thought to use them on the RIGHT side of the bear!!  May have to do a clown bear coming up???.....

Delartful Bears May 2, 2005

Oooh Laura,

You are full of great ideas!!!!  I have been having trouble finding a pen to show up on dark backings and I find that gold gel pens sorta works, but not too well, I'm going to try a pastel colour!

Thanks!

Laura Lynn Banner SponsorMay 2, 2005

Ooooh, Shelli . . . I really needed some company in the bear slammin' department . . .

LOL Sue Ann!!!  You crack me up

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner SponsorMay 2, 2005

Laura, I lurked by the Edinburgh board before I came on here and saw your post about the Schaumburg show . . . thanks much again for liking my hugs and my rooster . . . you're a Sweetie!!   Also, your avatar is VERY attractive - you did a great job!  This is PhotoShop that you and Shelli work with?  I've got an OLD version of Corel Photo something or other that I use, but it certainly doesn't have all the bells and whistles that PhotoShop apparently does.  Maybe I need and update . . . . hmmmmmm. 

Dilu May 2, 2005

Ok Everyone....

I took the water color pencils and experimented on some white wool felt.
I used a small brush to add water on some of it.  It seems like it would be better if the felt were pre-washed prior to using this method.  The color doesn't take as evenly in the areas where there is sizing or something likie that.  However when the water was added the color was much brighter and more vibrant.

The watercolor pencils without water were really nice, soft muted almost feathery.  The way well applied eye shadow looks.  Delicate.

I know the watercolor pencils need to be heat set, so I ironed  it and then held it under running water....no bleeding occured.  On the sample with water or the sample without. 

I guess it is time to do some shadowing

I always rinse my felt in hot water anyway prior to dying it so this step isn't a problem for me. 

I am looking forward to seeing/hearing the results the rest of you have with the different methods.

I got out the fabric pens, and they work really well as well, but the colors are starker and stronger. 

I think it must depend on the effect we are striving for as to which medium we use.

By the way It is a real honor to be able to read the posts of some of the foremost bear makers around. 

You guys remember master classes in college?  For me it was music.  You would go to a master class and the true artist would critique your playing and show, play, describe how to do it better.

This is like a master class for teddies.

It is inspiringt but also humbling.

Thanks

Dilu

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner SponsorMay 2, 2005

Hey, Dilu . . . your testing out all the options is GREAT!  Thanks much for the report.  I noted that you play the piano . . . too bad we can't hear you on the message board.   I played for a long time, but since I started bearing, it's REALLY hard to find time to practice.

Laura Lynn Banner SponsorMay 2, 2005

Also, your avatar is VERY attractive - you did a great job!  This is PhotoShop that you and Shelli work with?

Hi Sue Ann!  Thanks so much!  I had some fun this morning   Yes, I used the less expensive version called Photoshop Elements... I got it a few years ago for $70 (compared to the full version of $700!!)  There's still so much I don't use with Photoshop Elements... that I know I would never have time for the full version!

But I do have to say... there's a lot I did not realize this program did until I got a "help" book... by that I mean a book that was NOT the manual!   I bought "A Digital Photographer's Guide to Photoshop Elements" and learned a LOT!  I never understood how to work with layers until I read that.  Maybe there's a book for the program you have?

Winney May 2, 2005

Dilu...Thank's so much for the results of your testing, I will try that out too..

Oh, somebody finally found something to mark dark fabrics with..yahooooo !

I accidently found something that works ...you know everywhere I go I look at anything with teddy bear making eyes , LOL. Well, I was with my son,we went into a welding supply shop, while he is looking at his stuff to buy I am wandering around and found a funny looking white pointed stick thing...a  " pencil" ? , looked like it was made out of soapstone ? I found out that it's used as a marking device for welders. It was only .30 cents...so I thought maybe it will mark on black fabric.....well, it does ! It sharpens up the same as a pencil . ......Winney

Eileen May 2, 2005

Double Wowza Everybody:D

What great information on shading.

I know I read somewhere that it helps to dampen the fabric/fur slightly before shading? Which kind of shading would this apply to?

Also wondering about oil paints--how do you prevent or cure stiffness?

Otherwise, I think you bear-slammin' ladies ought to start a percussion band, something like BruinStomp!

Eileen

p.s. We just survived a hailstorm followed by a slushstorm. My poor tulips.