Banner Sponsors
For artists and collectors sponsored by Intercal...your mohair supplier and Johnna's Mohair Store
Time for a wee moan. I don't do it often, but every now and again, a grouch spouted out does the power of good!
Tit for tat.
Ebay of course. Has to be doesn't it?
The only times I have ever received negative feedback on Ebay, are the times when someone has let me down significantly enough to elicit a negative feedback from me. They know they're in the wrong and that I've been a fast payer at their auctions and yet instead of manfully taking my complaint on their chin, they lash out with reciprocal negative feedback.
I'm always fair, never personal and rarely leave negative feedback because most times, there's really no need, but once in a while, if I've been treated shoddily, I'll speak up and run the risk of receiving a red button in return.
It makes me wonder, if there couldn't be a better system implemented, and should we really be held to ransom in this way? After all, feedback is supposed to be the key to creating trust between buyer and seller! Or did I just imagine that? 
Okay.
Rant over.
There's nothing to see here.
Move along please. 
Nova Scotia,CanadaSending supportive hugs and moving along :hug: 
Wild Thyme OriginalsPaula... i took a peek at the negative feedback that was left for you and the feedback you had left... let me assure you that when I see stuff like that... it never turns me off.... I doubt that it does many other buyers/sellers either. Unfortunately, we are all bound to run into someone uncooperative eventually, I'm quite sure that no one is going to freak out when they see it.
It does totally SUCK to get retaliatory feedback... I do feel for you imensely Paula! I know that here we've all talked about how great it would be to have a double blind system... where seller & buyer don't get to view the other's feedback for that transaction until BOTH have posted it.
Big HUGS! :hug:
Kim Basta
Wild Thyme Originals
The same thing happened to me Paula....I bought a faux fur coat..when it arrived it was nothing like that described. I complained...she didn't respond. I offered to send back the item...no response...I went to ebay with the dispute...they found in my favour.
So why then was she allowed to leave me negative feedback...which incidentally ebay say they won't remove despite their own findings.
I do think negative feedback ought to be a bit harder to leave....especially when the person who is the guilty party can so readily hit back at the person who is merely exercising their right to complain.
I don't blame you for ranting...my own issue was months ago and I get mad even now, everytime I look at my blemished feedback......
Posts: 434Aww crud Paula!
but yes, when I am bidding, I also check to see what was really written in feedback.... that tells us so much more. Personally, your feeback would not bother me at all to bid.
However, I do agree.... how aggrevating!! What I do now... because I do feel that ebay's feedback system obviously has its flaws.... is I multiple id's.... one for my bears and one for my other stuff and bidding. It is perfectly legal with eBay and it helps that problem. :hug:
Bears-a-Bruin!Paula, like everyone else I also research the neg feedback by going to the other person's feedback too, to get a fuller picture. So I am definitely not influenced when I can see the neg has been retaliatory.
As for eBay's system....someone else on a different thread (sorry, I forgot who!) suggested that feedback should be hidden until both parties have left it. I think this is an excellent idea and would go some way to avoiding tit-for-tat. And feedback should then be mandatory (so that the guilty party can't just hold off leaving feedback). Just a thought :|.
Anyway, hugs to you :hug:. Being honest is always the best policy!!!
Cincinnati, OhioI agree with you, Paula. I have one negative feedback myself, and it was the direct result of a well-deserved negative I left. Negative feedback should be more thoroughly investigated.
Thanks for stopping by everyone - I really appreciate your comments. I think the concept of hidden and mandatory feedback is an excellent one. Let's hope that Ebay tightens up this area in the near future!
Multiple ID's is something I also use, but I like to keep the things I buy and sell for my business on one account so that the receipts all show the same ID. Mind you, once in a while I confuse myself and find I've purchased a personal item on my business account!! 
Pandy Potter BearsIts a right cheek. The only other thing to suggest is have a seperate account for selling bears and one for other general stuff where you are more likely to meet bad ebayers. Not that I have seperate accounts! :hug:
Jane Perala Designs Ltd.So sorry Paula, it is hard not to take this kind of thing personally. Cheer up, everybody here loves you! I agree that a double blind system would be so much better.
I also want to ask everyone's advice on what you do when a customer doesn't pay, and how long you would wait before contacting ebay with an unpaid item dispute, and offering it to the next highest bidder? She has contacted me a couple of times with excuses, however I don't want this going on indefinately. Has anybody else had this problem before?
Thanks,
Jane P.
Lord, yes. Luckily just once. I waited over a month and got stiffed over $650 anyway. It happened to quite a few folks around that time, with the same buyer. She would bid on EVERYTHING and then cancel bids or simply not pay. Very frustrating, esp. when you NEED the income from your bearmaking to cover household expenses.
I'm a huge chicken and tend to hold back my feedback until I have received it. I know the pros and cons of that, and have listened to both sides. But it feels "safe" to me to behave in this protected way. If I withhold my feedback until I receive mine, the chance of initial negative and retaliatory feedback is removed.
Does this mean I'm sometimes biting my tongue? Heck yes! I've occasionally posted nothing at all, rather than posting lies; happily this doesn't happen with bear collectors, but with the OTHER people I deal with on eBay, buying things for my kids, or items from non-bear-community sellers, etc.
I wouldn't ever give a positive feedback mark, or a glowing compliment, just to get one in return. But I would and do avoid saying what I REALLY think on occasion, if it's a negative or a compliant -- even if entirely valid! -- since I realize that doing so might come back to bite me, HARD... and protecting my professional name and reputation is, in the big picture, significantly more important to me than speaking my mind, or protecting OTHER eBay members from a particular eBay member.
I do struggle with the fact that this might make me seem selfish, and that it reflects a helplessness I really resent; my strong preference would be to forewarn others about shady eBayers.
But, selfishly, I have to admit to myself that I do care more about keeping my own sales record clean and my own integrity intact than I care about keeping the rest of the world safe from unethical eBayers.
I wish I could do it all for everyone -- that's the co-dependent nurturer in me -- but I do believe, at the end of the day, that charity begins at home. I look out for me and mine first in this area. Hope that doesn't make me sound cold or cowardly. I'm just trying to be smart about how I run my business, and about how I present myself professionally.
I think it stinks, Paula, that you were stung unfairly... and Jane, that you're stuck waiting for payment, not knowing precisely the "right" move to make. eBay is a great and terrible place, both. I'm grateful to it for so many things, but it frustrates me as it does most of you, too, for its impersonal presentation, and the inaccessibility of real help when it's most needed.
All I can do is send you both my support and wishes for some peace of mind and Jane, for a quick resolution to your non-payer situation.
Love you gals! :hug:
Posts: 434I also want to ask everyone's advice on what you do when a customer doesn't pay, and how long you would wait before contacting ebay with an unpaid item dispute, and offering it to the next highest bidder? She has contacted me a couple of times with excuses, however I don't want this going on indefinately. Has anybody else had this problem before?
Thanks,
Jane P.
Jane-
I guess you remember me?? I bought two of your wonderful bears Gabrielle and Young Gentleman.
On my ebay auctions I make sure I say... "payment is due 7 days of the closing of auction with no exceptions." If they don't pay I e-mail them and remind them of the 7 day payment agreement. So far I haven't had any problems after the 7 day period. I think ebay states you have to allow 7 or 10 days before reporting anyone for not paying. I'm not sure but you can read up on it on ebay or someone else can help out here and shed some light. I'm sorry you are having trouble getting payment for one of your cutties!! I would say after the 7 or 10 days offer it to the second highest bidder and report the other person to ebay. 
LutonHello All Ladies,
I also have run a business on Ebay selling bike spares. The way I look at it is this. If the buyer is good, I will always leave positive feedback before they give it to me. If they have a gripe usually they will e-mail you first before leaving neg feedback, so it can always be sorted out !!
If you do get bad feedback you can always respond to it. Which customers can always read.
If someone messes me around though, I will leave negative feedback because if they are doing it to everyone they will end up with lots of negative feedback & then people can avoid them.
One guy messed me around alot and when I threatened to leave him neg feedback, he left it for me saying some very rude words, which I then used to report him to Ebay and he got kicked off!!!
I think if you sell enough, then someone along the line will always be petty and say something bad because they are small minded!!!
Never be afraid to flex your muscles as it may also help someone else make a buying mistake !!!
Hugs to you all
Claire
Posts: 8,574:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
rants are ok and sometimes necessary-
hugs are better: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
hope all is better hon.
dilu
I'm just a buyer,......
LOL!! WildCatDancer... there's no such thing as "just a buyer"... without buyers there would be no sellers!!!! 
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)I thought there was a spot on the Feedback that allowed one to Respond to Feedback that's been left. This would allow one to 'explain' and others would have a little better grasp of the situation. Perhaps that option's gone?
This is a bit of a divergence but it's been a bugaboo to me: I attended an all-day, free *eBay University* when they came through Chicago last year (they're listed in the Community Forums - I think!!) and one thing that was advised was that the person who accepts payment has the duty/obligation to leave Feedback as soon as the payment's made. The Buyer has fulfilled his obligation at that point.
Too many Sellers 'hold the Feedback ransom' (eBay's term) until after the Buyer posts Feedback. If the transaction goes through smoothly, what's with not posting immediately? I realize there are non- or late-payers, but I think it's only right to give them their immediate Feedback if they've paid in a timely fashion.
Good and valid points, all.
I wish we lived in a world where trusting people makes practical sense. It certainly makes ethical sense. But it's not a fair world, sadly, and I believe in watching my back. I've read too many times -- including here at TT! -- over and over, about sellers who do everything right, all the way down to the last molecule... and yet still get reamed for their efforts, because their buyer was particularly difficult, or impatient, or unwilling to ask a question or otherwise communicate about something on his or her mind. This hasn't happened to me yet and I hope it never will; but it does happen, to good people, for little or no reason, all the time. Which is why we have a truckload of threads and an entire category covering eBay here at TEDDY TALK... just one miniscule niche of the eBay marketplace.
I'm afraid I'm one of the "ransom" holders when it comes to feedback, and probably will stay that way. It's just too risky to post glowing feedback without at least some indication, from the buyer, that they plan to do the same. I do feel free to leave feedback immediately upon payment if the buyer is openly communicative and clearly pro-active and has a good record him or her self. When someone pays right away and writes something like, "Can't wait to get little so-and-so!" I know intuitively it will be safe to leave feedback right away and that has never strung me.
But in the case where there is little or no communication and/or the buyer is slow to pay and disinterested in communication of any kind, then yeah... I'll probably still hold my little ransom. Especially if they pay toward the end of the due period, and without comment of any kind about the transaction.
When there are people in the world who get irked that you don't ship your item out THE SECOND THEY PAY FOR IT -- even though they pay, say, four days late themselves -- I just don't trust the system.
I would definitely feel differently about "ransom holding" -- apropos term, but it still cracks me up, Bobbie! -- if eBay seemed more responsive about actively chasing down and getting rid of deadbeats RIGHT AWAY. And if they seemed more committed to addressing the issue of undeserved, retaliatory, or aggressive feedback. But they don't, for what are probably good reasons (too hard to do for each individual case, can't "know" which party is "in the right" from a distance, etc.) So I just feel the need to protect myself.
Anyway, hope that doesn't make me the bad guy. I appreciate buyers who pay quickly (not necessarily immediately) and who are responsive and communicative and I tell them so and reward them with glowing, gushing, honest feedback. So I figure that's well and good enough!
Patsy Lake BearsPaula sending hugss :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: .. don't worry I am sure it wont put anyone off ...
Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)Oh Shelli, I totally agree with you & others about the deadbeats - non-communicators/late payers/etc...
As a Seller, ransom-holding of Feedback from Buyers that pay immediately still goes on; it's a game of waiting-to-be-the-last-to-post, no matter what kind of transaction it turns out to be. eBay's point is that when the Buyer pays, they've met their moral & financial obligation. Yes, the Buyers can still leave negative Feedback after accepting the Seller's goods for whatever twisted reason; some ppl are just unbalanced. That's where the Post-Comment feature came in.
reward them with glowing, gushing, honest feedbac
Remember the phrase "Damned by faint praise"? One becomes a Wordsmith in refining that. The best ones are those in which they don't even realize that they've been stung. I've never had a problem, except 1 cheap, inexpensive item that never arrived & I blew it off with no Feedback.
Some times artists of all sorts are the worst about following through! Rather than not leave Feedback, I carefully craft my terms - fool me once, shame on....etc......
A real wuss, very non-confrontational, passive-aggressive here!
LutonShelli,
I know what you mean about petty peolple who want the item delivered 10 seconds after they paid for it. A lady once left me neutral feedback because I posted an item on the Thursday (day after auction ended) & it didn't arrive till the Tuesday. She forgot to take into consideration that an Easter Bank Holiday was in between, with a Good Friday & A Bank holiday Monday !!1
So I responded to her feedback and kindly pointed that out !!! Anyone reading my feedback would have seen the pettiness of her comments. She loved the item she bought !! Go Figure !!!
Hugs
Claire
Thanks everyone! I like to leave honest feedback as soon as I've been paid if I'm selling and when I've received my goods if buying. I think that's fair and even if the game isn't fair, I still prefer to play it so. Now and again I've been burned, but when all is said and done, the good ebayers I've deal with, far outweight the baddies.
