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shantell Jul 7, 2006

I've already posted these in the Bears & Friends section but I'm really looking for some constructive feedback.  As many of you know, I've not been overly happy with where my bears are going for several reasons I don't need to drone on about.

I've reworked a pattern or two and have been trying out new techniques and such.  Here is my latest creation which includes an open mouth for the first time. 

I'd really like some honest feedback...anything is welcome.  Be cruel if you need too!!!  I'll try not to be crushed  :crackup:

After some conversations on here I'm deciding I really want more out of my bears and although I generally like what I do I know are not unique enough right now to draw the attention I want.  There are so many AWESOME bearmakers right now that I feel somewhat lost in the mix....I'd like to stand out just a teeny weeny tiny bit...okay at least get noticed.  Sounds selfish but I don't mean it to.

Thanks!!

nettie Jul 7, 2006

HI Shantell,
Looking at your bears I can't think of any critisism.They look well made and cute.I am perhaps not the right person to judge as I don't collect artist bears.I do have a worry that too many techniques etc are not the way to go.I agree there needs to be a something extra.I was just looking at ebay and all the hundreds of bears with no bids.I don't know the answer.I think good bears come with good design .It can be just luck that you come up with a winning formula.I am sometimes surprised by what gets lots of bids and what doesn't.I think you always do well with bears that you love yourself.If you make bears that are to your taste and as well made as you can make them you can't go wrong.
I think anyone that sells consistenty is beating the odds when you see how much competition there is.
I don't think I have been of any help here but these are my thoughts.
Hugs Diane xxx

chrissibrinkley Jul 7, 2006

As many of you know, I've not been overly happy with where my bears are going for several reasons I don't need to drone on about.
............................After some conversations on here I'm deciding I really want more out of my bears and although I generally like what I do I know are not unique enough right now to draw the attention I want.  There are so many AWESOME bearmakers right now that I feel somewhat lost in the mix....I'd like to stand out just a teeny weeny tiny bit...okay at least get noticed.  Sounds selfish but I don't mean it to.

Hi Shantell,
First off let me say I honestly think you're creating lovely bears and for that you should be happy..you're talented and you're working your art.

I'm kinda of in the same boat as you being a new comer so I'm not giving you any words of "wisdom" here, just what I've found for myself and what I've seen doing all of my research (and lurking  ).

The unique aspect.....from what I've seen and heard it's all about what you like, what's around you, what inspires you..even if you're not 100 % aware of it.  I read somewhere here that a pattern evolved from the artists cats face (a particular breed). From what I've read in postings Kim Basta (who I am in awe of) truly has a lyrical soul and that shows in her designs and use of fairy tale themes, wings, color, etc. If you're into grubby antique primitive things and design you're probably not going to want to make bright funky bears, like Barbara Ann Bears, day in and day out (love those bears!!). 
You just might need some quality "you time" to step back away from the design for a day or two and really look at what you love...is it color, is it nature, is it texture, etc...what do you LOVE?  Forget about what you're seeing on ebay (I luv my ebay, but it is NOT how an artist should be gauging themselves...can you imagine if Van Gogh just painted his sunflowers over and over to meet ebay sales?? Or if he changed things up because he thought Cézanne was getting a better run on ebay  :crackup: ) you just have to focus on what you love and what inspires you and your heart.

I started out with traditional styled mini's. I'm seeing that my dogs are influencing my "larger" bears.  I have a Shiloh Shepherd Puppy with a long honker of a nose and doe eyes.  I tell her every hour "you're so pretty", so it would figure when I sent a photo of my first large Mohair bear out to my family they all responded with...."he looks like Meadow". 

This is one of my favorite quotes and I think I just might add it to my signature here: He who works with his hands is a laborer. He who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman. He who works with his hands and his head and his heart is an artist.
~St Francis of Assisi

~Chrissi
ebay, ctcatherwoods
coming summer2006...www.CatherWoods.com

shantell Jul 7, 2006

Thank you ladies...

I know I'm heading in the right direction.  I sometimes want things before I need them.    Like this really cute purse I saw at Gottschalks yesterday!!!   I'm going back this evening to make it mine!

WildThyme Jul 8, 2006

First off...  Chrissi... oh my... what a fabulously wonderful compliment that was!  i think you just made my heart sing a little song!  Thank you!    

Shantell... let me share this with you, and I am not sure it will help in any way what so ever, or if maybe you are going through something similar from a creative point of view... but it's something that dawned on me back when I was in the ballet, and then I had to relearn it again when I was sculpting, and it definitely holds true with me now with the bears.  In ballet, there is a technically perfect way of doing a step.  Now, when you've trained long enough to get as close to technical perfection as your individual body can go.  Once you gotten to that point though... You can put two dancers in an identical pose, with identical body form, etc.... but you can TELL which dancer is THINKING "I am that touching the tip of a cloud with my fingertips," and which one is THINKING... "My arm is above my head just where I was told to put it."

When I first started sculpting, I had an image in my head as to what I wanted a particular figure to look like, and of course, since I was just starting out, the face was never quite how I had imagined it in my mind.  So... on to the second... same thing... perfect image in the mind, sculpt... and maybe this one was closer, but there was something different about the second that didn't quite live up to my mind's eye... on to the third... Well after doing this maybe 20 times, I realized something the thing i was holding in my hands was NEVER going to look like the vision.... EVER... because the vision was perfection, and human hands just aren't capable of that.  Plus.... working from just a perfect image of form... I was essentially creating the same thing over and over again... things were changed here and there... proportions, body position... but it was all the same unattainable vision of the perfect form.  It was only when I let go of the idea that I was going to create something visually perfect that I was able to create something that spoke in a different way.  And I think that's probably what you are looking for... that's what probably all of us are looking for in what we create... we want a bear that "speaks" to the viewer, draws them in, makes them feel something that they want to partake of .... which hopefully induces a purchase and a life long love affair with our bear. 

When I start thinking about making a bear, and while I am working on the face and costuming, I try to "emotionally infuse" that bear with what I want her to "say."  For me, I try to keep it to something simple, very base emotions that are experienced by people as they go about everyday life.... the experience of watching water drops roll down a window, the feeling of rolling down a hill on a summer day... breathlessly watching a butterfly knowing that it is going to fly off any minute...stuff like that.  A lot of time it does end up coming out the the expression of the bear or the coloring, costuming, etc.... It sounds really weird and almost wishy washy as I try to explain it... but I just try to stick THAT in my bear, and I work on getting THAT into my bear as much as I work on a "perfect" nose or pleasing proportions.  A great looking bear says, "Hey, I'm a great looking bear!"  And there's nothing at all wrong with that.    But an emotionally invested bear says.....

When you were a child you whispered a secret to me...
I need you as much as you need me... hold me...
Remember how good it feels to drink lemonade in the sunshine.....

Does that make any sense?  I feel like I am rambling.... but I thought maybe that might kinda be the something more that you are expecting from your bears.

I totally agree with what everyone else has said Shantell..... I can't really find a "fault" to give you any real constructive criticism about!     To me... when I look at your bears... the thing that first pops into my head is that they are very gentle   maybe you can take that gentle thing and run with it a bit creatively to get closer to what you are trying to pull out of them?   :hug:

Kim Basta
Wild Thyme Originals

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner SponsorJul 8, 2006

You've already had fantastic feedback, Shantell, and I can only echo what they've said.  Kim said 'gentle' in referring to the look of your bears and I agree.  I also think along with that look, they also say "I am a gentle soul, but - hey - I'm not above a little joke or two!"  They have a lot of soul in their little faces and that's wonderful!  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:

Jennskains Jul 8, 2006

I Love these two. They are so expressive! How did you do his pants? Have you thought  of roughing them up?

New Avenue Crew Jul 8, 2006

Shantell, "gentle" is a great word to describe your bears. They have such kind faces.  I'm in the same boat as you: I want to make bears that have that "something" that can be my own. Yours are very sweet, and it would be impossible to tell you to do this or that! Keep trying!! I'll be in the design process this year for sure; just ordered some plastic template material in anticipation of new patterns. One thing I'll say about your new little chap is that I love his expression and the "I'll love you always" look about him. I am thinking that all the lovely mohair hides his shape a bit...maybe the next bear's fur could be a bit shorter so your design shows through more. Please don't misread; he is very sweet!    I think it would be best to see him in person and hold him and give him a hug. Photos just don't do enough. I can't wait to see your next sweet face!

Bear hugs,
Debora

chris009av Jul 8, 2006

Hi Shantell, you have had some great comments, I did like that one about the bigger shopping bag 
I just wanted to add that we all should never forgett the ARTIST in artist bears.
I feel your unique style is already there, as I can tell your lovely bears from others.  I do hope you just sit back and take time to explore what your doing.  You are unique    Don't go by what's happening on ebay unless you want to fall into the trap of mass producing other peoples bears.
Take a good look at your bears, they are speaking to you if you listen. 

Tracy Jul 9, 2006

First of all, I think Flamingbear's feedback is a bit cruel and undeserved.   Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but in this case it is off the mark. 

Shantell, you are not trying to copy everyone else. :hug:   By asking how a bear maker does something, which just about ALL of us do, you are merely learning new techniques.  We all have learned our techniques from someone else initially.  We put our own spin on them, but rarely is a technique totally invented by a particular bear artist.

In my opinion Shantell, your bears already have a 'certain something' that is all your own.  They have soul, as was already said, and the cutest little faces.  They really draw one in with their beautiful eyes.  I can look at one of your bears and know immediately it is an Apple Dumpling Bear.  I absolutely love my Cooper that I bought from you......I never tire of looking at his little face.    I think you should just keep creating from the heart as you have been.  That's where those sweet Apple Dumpling faces come from!

:hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:  :hug:
Tracy

chrissibrinkley Jul 9, 2006

Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, 'Certainly I can!' Then get busy and find out how to do it. ~good old Teddy Roosevelt himself.  Where this whole Teddy Bear thing started.

None of us here came up with this concept of "teddy bear".  We're all on a trip someone else started, we're all copying that first teddy bear and we're all "getting busy and finding out how to do it".  There isn't a single artist in the world, self taught or schooled, who hasn't "studied" those before them.  From painters, to photographers, to animators, to sculptors, to silversmiths, to bear makers we're all traveling a well worn path. We're all reading the books, researching the sites, and asking the questions. People pay top dollar to attend classes with "the best" in their industry, to assume you know it all in any business is ignorant. Until someone successfully creates and sells a bear with 2 heads, 5 limbs and 3 eyes (hmmmm, note to self...must write that down) we'll all be here doing what we do and helping others. How sad to think that learning, teaching, seeking assistance and mentoring is not a positive thing! "Help others achieve their dreams and you will achieve yours."

ROCK ON SHANTELL!!  :hug:

~Chrissi
PS.... last weekend I read THE ENTIRE techniques list (ok, I have no life... :crackup: ).
#1) it is a plethora of teddy bear knowledge...GOLD i tell you! #2) each person has equally asked and answered questions with their peers. #3) 3 posts total and each very cruel....does someone need a hug??

shantell Jul 9, 2006

Thank you Tracy, Chrissi!!

I feel confident in what I've been doing and know that what you say is true.  I place absolutely no merit on the previous post.  I know in my heart that Teddy Talk is a place to come and learn and share.  It's why WE are here...not to throw stones.

I've received some wonderful CONSTRUCTIVE feedback from those who matter and I thank you again as I have many times before.

A friend once said to me when I was struggling with someone in my own life..."God puts people into your life to show you how to be...he also in turns puts people into your life to show you how NOT to be." 

Hugs,
Shantell

Chowlea Bears Jul 9, 2006

Shantell - you've voiced my problem exactly.  Thank you.

I think your bears are delightful and they do make me smile.

Kim - Thank you so much for your words of wisdom.   :hug: 
I really appreciated what you had to say.

nettie Jul 9, 2006

I have to say Flamingbear was a bit harsh and personal but I too have wondered a bit about all the question asking.not by anyone in particular)
I don't know if I could ask how to do certain things myself.Everything I do I have worked away at myself.I have never asked another artist for help on any specific technique.I feel if you learn things your own way they are more unique to you.I know lots of established artists that are amazed at being asked how they do things.I suppose it is different on a board like this.I am impressed at how open and quick to share all the things that people have learned over years of trial and error.This can only be a good thing but does it result in people having their own look or a mish mash of other peoples.Time will tell.There are a lot of posts from people worried about not having their own look???
I don't buy the magazines ,I have never been on a bear making course or used a pattern etc etc and I have never felt the need to ask if I have a look.Maybe I do maybe I don't maybe I would have been more succesful asking for help who knows???I just feel we have to put in the time and make mistakes ourselves.
I think you have talent Shantell and I am unaware of all the posts flamingbear mentioned but then if you ask for critiques you have to take the good with the bad and it seems to be her or his opinion.I truly feel the route to making good bears and selling well is within yourself.
Diane xxx

Dilu Jul 9, 2006

Oh, Dear Miss flammingbear, tsk tsk....we play nice here. 

Shantelli!

Your first bear:  I love his little shoulders!  I struggle with shoulders but yours are so perfect!

I also like their proportions.  They are very pleasing.   I also love your eyes.  And since I have one of your bears I can speak to construction.  They are very well made.

Now, as the stripper told Gypsy Rose Lee

"You gotta have gimmick, if you wanta get ahead!"

You are right, you need something, some little thing to set yourself apart from the rest of the pack....But is it in the construction?  Is it in the shadings, the faces,?  I don't know.  They seem like adorable little baby bears to me.

Our Diane (Nettie) has a certain style....almost all of us would recognize her bears....the adorable wee scones that they are....but Shantelli it took her years to get to this point.  Same as Judi or_____________fill in the blank.   

Perhaps you are being to hard on yourself?

Tracy said:

We put our own spin on them, but rarely is a technique totally invented by a particular bear artist.

KIM said

but you can TELL which dancer is THINKING "I am that touching the tip of a cloud with my fingertips," and which one is THINKING... "My arm is above my head just where I was told to put it."

Chrissi said

You just might need some quality "you time" to step back away from the design

I think all three ladies stated very beautifully what is necessary for us to rise above our normal and move into the next stage of creativity. 

The fact that you are asking tells you that you are still searching.

I can tell you from years of playing piano, and months of practicing a certain piece, and weeks of practicing a specific arpeggio, and hours of practicing the same 4 measures over and over and over and, sigh, I can tell you that the joy of reaching that exhaulted sphere, even for a mere 5 minutes, was worth the years of getting to that specific moment in time.

I would excell in piano where the moment of triumph is over in a heartbeat!  double sigh.

It is brave and admirable to continue to seek advice and guidance from others.  But it is also important to allow the process to take the time that it takes.

hugs

They didn't push Micheangelo to do a rush job on the Sistene ceiling.....if they had we might have had modern art alot sooner than we did.

clare14 Jul 9, 2006

Shantell, I always recognise your bears as yours, sweet little things those Apple Dumplings!!   :hug:

Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner SponsorJul 10, 2006

I'm not sure exactly what the point of an "instructional, q&a, classroom" -type forum like TEDDY TALK would even be, if instruction and questions and answers to those questions were considered uncouth contributions to the forum experience here.

I'm confident that if someone in Rome asked Michaelangelo how to load a paintbrush with oils, he would have told that someone how to do so graciously, without concern that this person -- simply by learning one skill involved in painting -- would then become "the NEW Michaelangelo" and ruin his great run of things in the art world.  There's only ONE Michaelangelo.  There only ever will be.

It was the superb, multi-award-winning bear artist Michelle Lamb who modelled for me how easy it is -- and how good it feels! -- to help the passionate and the new (I was once, too!) to learn isolated skills, in ways that do not, in any way, diminish the value of an artist's own work.  She taught me heaps about business models, eBay sales, and photography, for which I'll be eternally grateful... and for which I eternally give her credit!  As I think integrity dictates I should.

Most, if not all, of us here at TT are intelligent and ego-strong enough to keep close to our hearts those things we consider our "trade secrets," which are fundamental to the uniqueness of our work.  The rest is just... dry instruction, for each reader to do with as he or she wants.

I have never felt begged for information and when it suited me better to keep things vague or quiet, I've felt comfortable shying away from explanation, with zero pressure to act differently.

I absolutely agree with Diane... There is something significant and important to be said for finding one's own way and for acting without explicit how-to instructions for every step, or specific models for every outcome.  It's at that point that we really "discover our voice" as artists.

But none of us here invented thread, or our sewing machine, or the idea that teddy bears look cool in mohair... someone showed us that, somehow, somewhere.

To me, sharing technique and materials pointers about eyelids or stuffing or embroidering... passing that information from one artist to another... is just like a Home Ec teacher showing her clueless 7th grade student how to thread his entirely-foreign sewing machine.  Learning to thread his Singer won't make that kid Karl Lagerfeld of Chanel.  There's only one Karl Lagerfeld of Chanel.  And damn, but I'd love one of his outfits!

But showing that clueless kid how to thread his Singer WILL give him a start, which is important, if he wants to make something with that sewing machine of his OWN design.  And we all must start somewhere.  Right?

We're about starts here at TEDDY TALK, seems to me.  And for what it's worth (possibly, not much!), I think Shantell, along with every other question-asker here, myself included, are looking for places to START when the ideas come fast and hard, but know-how and experience lag far behind.  I don't get the sense that folks here are seeking an easy way out... but rather, for ways to be their best selves, presenting their best possible work, to the best of their ability.  To make their dreams, a reality.

And I, for one, find it hard to see fault in that.

Just one girl's opinion...

shantell Jul 10, 2006

Dilu & Clare...thank you for your kind words both here and privately.  Thank you to everyone who has messaged with support it is greatly appreciated.   And yes, Dilu I am hard on myself...perhaps to a fault...but I also know I will grow from that harshness...in pursuit of the cloud (emotion, feeling) Kim spoke to eloquently of...

Diane, I love your bears as you well know and completely admire the path that you have forged for those of us coming into our own.  It is very easy to forget that the internet was not always so available and we often take it for granted. 

I think it's also wonderful that there are so many established artist who are so willing to share what they've learned with those of us who have not....Nancy Tillberg, Judi Paul, Michelle Lamb, Shelli and so many more I can't even begin to name them all.  We have books, EbearU, magazines, etc...all full of artists...well known and not so well known who share openly and graciously.

I'm truly fine...I asked for feedback...I got it...what I do with it is another story.

Hugs to all of you,
Shantell

chris009av Jul 10, 2006

Oh Tracey, I am so glad you piped up there with a responce to flammingbears remark.
I did sort of say something simmilar in the respect to ' never forget the Artist in Artist bear'.
BUT...... my meaning was to go with your own personal style and explore that.
I don't see anything wrong in learning new techniques from others. It's when you explore these techniques in your own way that it truely becomes your own.
How can bearmaking go forward if we don't explore all posibilities????

sarahjane Jul 10, 2006

Firstly, Shantell I think your bears are beautiful and uniquely your own, they have a sweetness about them that others (myself included) love.

Second, I too think flamingbear could have been a little kinder in voicing her criticism (well a lot really!!).

When it comes to asking questions about techniques, I am only fairly new to bearmaking and I ask quite a bit, I tend to feel "why reinvent the wheel" if someone else already has the knowledge and is willing to share then this is the way we all learn and grow as bearmakers and also in other areas of our lives. The questions asked here aren't always about bearmaking.

I don't ask questions in order to copy what someone else is doing but so that I can learn a new way or technique, often it is something I have tried myself anyway and I am looking for an easier or better way to do something in order to bring my work up to a more professional standard. I feel that the forum here is very useful way of doing this as those that feel comfortable sharing their knowledge can but there is no obligation to answer a question if you don't want too.

We wouldn't expect new drivers to struggle and teach themselves how to operate a car and we shouldn't expect that in other areas of our lives, if people wish to teach themselves then that is fine too, but even the most brilliant artist probably had some painting lessons along the way!!!

Most people need to learn the skill involved in bearmaking before they can explore their creativity and because after learning this they have the skills necessary that makes the artistry of bearmaking easier as you are no longer having to concentrate on the technique, but on the art instead.

Anyway Shantelle now that I have written a book I do want you to know that I really do think your bears are beautiful and that probably what you are wanting is that really distinctive  "look" that some of the others here have.  Sometimes I think this is really hard to see in our own bears, I think that your bears are recognisably your own and perhaps what you have to do now is just refine what you already have. That sweet, gentle look that the others have already mentioned.  :hug:

Jellybelly Bears Jul 10, 2006

((((hugs)))) Shantell  :hug:  :hug: Agree with what most everyone has said to you so won't harp on more, but your bears are cuties, you are moving ahead with your designing, learning and creating.  You are evolving and not stading still which speaks volumes.  If you don't ask you won't learn and if you do learn from someone, your bears won't and don't look like anyones...you learn something from someone and make it your own and it is different..your own spin and self in it....  Huge hugs  :hug:
xo Sarah

Marie_ Jul 10, 2006

Hi Shantell. sorry I'm little late here... but
I just want say that I love your bears and I think you do have "your style" already.
Why do I know this ?? because I can tell you wich one is your bears(at eBay or Bid4bears) just by looking at the photo.

hugs
Marie

Dilu Jul 10, 2006

Ahh Ha!

Well said Marie! 

Well said everyone

Excellent Shell

-

Well, Miss flamingbear.....when can we expect your next attack...or would you like to try again, come out of hiding, be embraced by the TTfamily and actually have some real fun?

I am extending the invitation-in hopes that you will be able to work through your anger and actually enjoy the TT experience.  I simply can not believe that Shantell, or any individual here, was truly the source of your anger-but rather something more global. 

so in the spirit of the old newspaper classifieds:

Tracy Jul 10, 2006

Well said Dilu!!  I ditto that!

   

All Bear Jul 10, 2006

Shantell, there's no problem with researching your craft!  We all need to do that.  I ditto all that Shelli has said, she has summarised eloquently and accurately as far as I am concerned.  It's great that you put your work in front of your colleagues for feedback!  More power to your elbow girl! 

To make a generalised comment for anyone who wants to develop an individual style I would say the following: it's great to try new techniques and work with them.  Some will suit an artist's work and enhance, others won't.  It's all part of the learning curve and only by having fun with experimentation, do we develop.  However, what I would say to anyone wanting to make unique bears, is don't be afraid to leave aside the latest techniques and instead concentrate first on creating beautifully proportioned bears with lifelike expression, using traditional techniques.  If you can create such bears without frills, it should then be possible to introduce creative touches which will enhance style, rather than clutter it.