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You put it so much better than me Paula.I sounded like a nippy sweetie ha ha.
Diane xxx
Flying Fur StudiosTo make a generalised comment for anyone who wants to develop an individual style I would say the following: it's great to try new techniques and work with them. Some will suit an artist's work and enhance, others won't. It's all part of the learning curve and only by having fun with experimentation, do we develop. However, what I would say to anyone wanting to make unique bears, is don't be afraid to leave aside the latest techniques and instead concentrate first on creating beautifully proportioned bears with lifelike expression, using traditional techniques. If you can create such bears without frills, it should then be possible to introduce creative touches which will enhance style, rather than clutter it. :)
Paula, that is the best bear advice I've ever heard!
Spoken like a true pro!
Flamingbear, I find it ... interesting ... that you are willing to publicly thank those who wrote you PM's, while stating that you, "wish they would be more public about it" ...
... yet, even while chastizing those same people for hiding behind the veil of private messaging, you, yourself, choose again and again to post to this board entirely anonymously, and by your own admission, only when something really "pushes (your) buttons" in a NEGATIVE way.
And, of course, you choose not to sign your name.
I find it equally interesting that you chose a username here that pretty much sums up your contributions to date. It's as if you knew what you planned to do here, before you made your first post. FLAMINGbear. How apropos. I do applaud THAT honesty, in terms of self-descriptors. Thank you.
Plain and simple, it's a grossly inaccurate overstatement to write that, "No-one has EVER been honest here." Really??? And how do you know that? Do you have connections to God, or some kind of mind reading apparatus, or have you, yourself, developed omnipotence? Have you read every single word of every single post here at TEDDY TALK (I think there are around 100,000) ... and did you then then ask every single writer whether he or she was being honest in what they wrote, when they wrote it?
Because if you haven't done these things, you can't make the extreme claim that NO ONE has EVER been honest here, with even a molecule of credibility.
There's plenty of honesty going around here, that I can see... most of it taking the form of real people with warm hearts HONESTLY wanting to HELP others. That means providing suggestions and instruction, and that means providing support. Both of which come from a giving place.
There are so many other things you bring up, but most of them depend on personal opinion and are open to interpretation, and so can't be answered absolutely.
Who would I be, for example, to say that a particular someone isn't talented? Who decides which of us has talent, and which of us doesn't?
Why do you think that "no one" is responding to tips & tricks questions? There's a world of information available in the reference library on just about every last topic one could inquire about.
What makes you think Michelle Lamb sells bears because she chooses unique fabrics and scissor sculpts (you wrote, "this is why her bears sell for so much money" on these points)? Maybe her bears sell for a lot of money because they're cute, and they'd be cute even if she made them out of used diapers... or because she has a loyal following... or because she's won a number of awards... none of which has anything to do with fabric choice or scissors. And, to clarify... as I've stated repeatedly, including in this thread, Michelle did not assist me with technique pointers, but with tips on selling and photography.
Flamingbear, whoever you are, I think you might be well served to remember that sometimes, things are set up with a mission, a goal, and a purpose in mind. I would not, for example, go to a day spa and rip the masseuse a new one because she refused to play NINE INCH NAILS on the speaker system, for my enjoyment, while there. It's a day spa, after all... and the purpose of that establishment is to induce relaxation, not hard-rocking head banging. For most people, NINE INCH NAILS soundtracks just don't achieve that end result.
Similarly... TEDDY TALK was not, and is not, intended to be, TEDDY TALK: THE place on the web to get a lacerating, scathingly-honest CRITIQUE of your teddy bears, in full public view.
Our mission, and one which we hold to proudly, is to ENCOURAGE and SUPPORT bearmakers and bear lovers by offering a kind of online teddy bear cafe, where we can meet up and SHARE instruction, advice, tips, tricks, fellowship, camaraderie, and friendship... no matter what one's association with teddy bears. Our tagline reads: CREATING . COLLECTING . CONNECTING. My own take on that is that connection is best achieved with gentleness and guidance and friendly communication... not by uninvited criticism and analysis (which are NOT the same things as feedback) and publicly humiliating commentary.
If you find the environment here too saccarin-sweet for your taste, and it leaves you filled with disgust, there is a simple remedy to that problem. Simply stop using this as a resource for your own bearmaking, as you've said you do... and find your information elsewhere.
I might suggest buying a book, paying a teacher, or using trial and error. Because those are fair. Right? And, as a bonus, also guaranteed not to upset you any further.
Thanks for your input.
Wow Shelli,
you go girl!!!!!I guess your button was well and truly pushed!!!!!I like you even more now.
Hugs Diane xxxx
Way to go Shelli :clap: :clap: :hug:
I have just been looking at the 4 post's that flamingbear has posted and not one of them is a happy or kind post.
Flamingbear here is a flower for you 
, i do hope you find happiness one day and then maybe you can come on TT and feel as happy as the rest of us do.
Hugs
Vicki
Posts: 8,574Yes, it was once said that we always back each other up, and I remember who said it, and while this is usually the case it isn't always the case. And when we don't back each other up we very diplomatically keep our mouths shut. Because nothing is to be gained from squabbling.
But in this case, I most assuredly back up Shelli-because she was able to say what I was writing, but she said it in a softer more diplomatic way.
Oh yes, my little chickadees, dilywonkers can have a nasty temper, probably about 2 times a year. sigh....
We do have standards here, and we Help Advisors truly care about each and everyone here getting the most out of their experience at TeddyTalk.
Why do we do it? Maybe because we love the industry, and have great respect for all the members here.
I was raised,( thank you Sister Angela,) that if you need to criticize do it so that the person doesn't feel the sting. Because if they are hurt then the correction that you hoped to show them is lost.
What's to be gained, Miss flaming bear, by trampling someones feelings? (Oops- you gave yourself away by saying
You know,
I my goal isn't to be a total Bi#ch
.....oh well, your syntax and grammar also gave you away)
But what is to be gained by being harsh and unkind? Do you truly feel better when you 'honestly trample' someone else's feelings?
And if you do-if you truly prefer to be angry and unkind, then my dear, I feel very sorry for you. You must have been hurt unforgivably in your earlier years.
I see a lot of honesty here. But even more important than honesty, if there can be something more important than honesty, is the love and caring I see here. I have not ever felt less than exuberant when one of the Talkers succeeds and triumphs! I rejoice for each and every sale, and achievement and joy.And 99.9% of the rest of the Talkers feel the same way....you others? you know who you are.....
Joy is so much kinder on an old woman than living inside a body filled with cantankerous negativity.
You are right, one hundred percent right. There are different levels of skill here, there are different levels of artistic ability, there are many of us who will never ever reach Michele Lamb or Judi Paul's level.....
so what?
We already know this. But we can continue to try our best to improve our skills and abilities.
If our lack of talent, as you put it, is continually pointed out to us individually; that we aren't talented enough, well that just kills the spirit.
Did someone kill your spirirt, little Miss flaming bear? If so I am sorry. But I wont sit back and allow you to continue to try and hurt others in your misguided spirit of honesty without speaking up.
My dear, it simply isn't the TeddyTalk way of doing things!
hugs,
Diane Lundgren
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Awesome Shelli! I'm glad you posted this as I agree whole-heartedly! As Diane said,
:dance: :dance:
Dilu--I missed your post, but
I fail to understand the motivation behind Flamingbears scathing comments other than to hurt or bring down others. Does this in some way help her to feel better about herself? I just don't get it. 
And by her own admission, she used TT for her own bear making. So what's with the idea that Shantell and others here are doing wrong by honestly asking for help with a particular technique? Seems to be a double standard to me. 
I could say more, but you have both summed up my feelings on this subject very weill, Shelli and Dilu. Thank you.......this from a TT'er who has asked for help (and given it in return) and has wondered many times why her bears weren't selling. They are doing pretty well now that I've been 'out there' a bit more and have built a (admittedly small yet) client base.......gee, guess that didn't have much to do with lack of talent, did it? 
:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
Tracy
Well said, everyone (Paula, Shelli, Dilu, Lisa, and more)! Flamingbear, I do hope that you find happiness in your life and that you will discover how to pass it along, even when giving criticism.
Thanks to everyone for their constructive words of encouragement. They can benefit us all!
Bear hugs, :hug:
Debora
Posts: 8,574 
Posts: 1,836Jeez LA Weez there's always a flamingbear, no matter the board, group, or discussion panel. To say you only post when someone pushes your buttons is just plain silly. Who pushed "your" button when the girls were happily posting their art cards and you called them "GARBAGE"? That's just mean. Found online......"Most organizations have a serial bully. It never ceases to amaze me how one person's divisive dysfunctional behavior can permeate the entire organization like a cancer." Won't happen if it's ignored 
And I'm taking my mom's good old fashioned advice and ignoring it from now on.
No one here who is productive and supportive in the true spirit of art and learning needs the added stress in their busy day, I sure as heck don't. For all the time spent on this we could have been learning how to make my 2 headed, 5 limbed, 3 eyed bear!! :crackup: :crackup: I'm a newbie, but I love TT and the people here are the best I've ever met! :hug:
'nuff said... BACK TO BEAR MAKING
~Chrissi
ebay, ctcatherwoods
coming summer2006...www.CatherWoods
Back Road BearsShantell......... my dear friend..... and fellow bear ARTIST........ you started this post with a very fair and legitimate concern. One many have experienced. What came after that was out of your control. And you should know that anytime Miss or Mister Flaming Bear makes a post it's going to only go down hill from there.
SHELLI: BRAVO!!! Thank you! Finally!!! Now why doesn't this person just get bumped off TT????? Because we're trying to be good and friendly folk, encouraging, giving the benefit of the doubt? FlamingBear has had more than 3 strikes and should be OUT. How's that for honesty, FlamingBear???? (I can see you sitting there snickering at the idea that you've succeeded in ticking people off... something I think you are sick enough to find pride and joy in!)
DIANE: BRAVO to you too! I'm glad to see that our advisors are not just trying to smooth feathers all the way around. Sometimes that just can't be done! Shantell and others unnamed that are the brunt of FlamingBears insults do indeed deserve our support!
FlamingBear... in my humble opinion your first nasty post on this thread sent everything down hill, as does every post you make. What is wrong with you? Your negativity effects this group in a very bad way. Worst of all.... you've gotten WAY TOO MUCH attention for such rotten behavior!
EVERYONE: in the future may I recommend that we all just ignore FlamingBear's posts. We know that to see that member name is to know that their post is nothing good and to acknowledge it is only going to give he/she what they want.... our raised hackles, ruffled feathers and more negativity. Most importantly, who ever this person's post is aimed at should remember not to take it personally. You are not responsible for this person's tantrums, he/she is obviously a very angry, hostile and verbally abusive person with a lot of issues and it's got nothing to do with you!!!!
You all have made some excellent posts about artistry, learning, developing a look, etc. Great, simply marvelous advice! I've saved many of your posts for inspiration!!!!
Flowers to all of you dear and wonderful TTers!!!
There is not a 'smiley' appropriate for FlamingBear.
Past Time BearsDon't think I can come up with anything original to add to this thread. I just really don't see the point, however, in posting an unkind, unsupportive, accusatory answer to an honest question, Flaming Bear, unless you really get your kicks in being negative to the point of stepping on others' feelings and stirring up a pot of ill-will. If you feel out of the loop and uncomfortable on this forum, why be here? And why don't you post anything positive instead of waiting until something "pushes your buttons"? You have said "I lurk here lots. I also make bears and appreciate all the tips I've learned here. I've learned lots from other people asking questions." Wait a minute, am I correct in thinking that you're taking advantage of and gleaning information about bear making because others have been so awful as to ask questions on how to do certain things? I don't get what you're about, obviously, but most of us here like the support, encouragement, compassion, kindness, and friendliness that Teddy Talk provides. We want to feel safe here. FlamingBear . . . I sincerely hope you find a way to deal with whatever is bothering you. We all have problems, frailties, faults - but we are also all human beings who should be respected. I respect you and your right to free speech, but please try to remember what TT is about and sometime I'd like to see a post from you that freely encourages, supports, and acknowledges honest effort . . . whether it be from a beginner or a seasoned artist.
BrisbaneI'm sure that the title of this post was....."constructive feedback appreciated"....I don't see anything constructive in destroying another persons self esteem for your own satisfaction. Flamingbear obviously feels differently to this.
I was taught that if critisism is necessary there are ways to do this that are friendly, tactful and helpful to the persons involved and that it is not in anyones best interest to be scathing and tactless.
Shelli and Dilu thank you for putting into words so well how I'm sure most of us here feel about these inappropriate posts.
I am a big believer in Karma and all flamingbear is doing by posting these extremely negative and inflamatory comments is setting herself up for a miserable life.....I hope he/she can learn a kinder more gentle way of doing things in future.
Hugs for everyone :hug: :hug: :hug:
Has anyone noticed that Flamingbear seems to be targeting Oregon artists posts? Why is that? Egad! I'm an Oregon artist too!! 
Shantell,
You'll find your way my dear. Do what pleases YOU. Trying to reign in the market of a fickle public can be like beating your head against a brick wall. Your bears are so darling and well made. How 'bout some more of those graduating dyed bears you did there for awhile. Now those were fabulous! Remember how many people were asking YOU how YOU achieved that look? HA! Well there you go.
Let's get together in September when life for me (and hopefully for you too!) calms down a bit. We can just plan a day of working in my studio. Bring a bear and I'll teach you a thing or two......and you can teach me that graduated dye technique!!
Warmest and biggest bear hugs, :hug:
Aleta
Flamingbear said:
Buy a book, pay a teacher, trial and error. Those are fair.
There are those of us who have worked hard for years to support new bear makers, the aim being to keep the bear industry fresh and exciting by encouraging new talent. I for one, have never chosen to write a book or teach an official class, for example. I do however, share my experiences freely and I hope, constructively.
'Teddy Talk' is a superb venue for offering constructive support as the advice given freely is given by those happy to do so. It's done on a voluntary basis, so it's spontaneous and as Shelli said in an earlier post, those that offer help, offer as much, or as little as they are comfortable with.
Flamingbear, I think your passion for innovative workmanship is in line with the ethos most of us strive to work within. Maybe some of us simply have a more lateral way of working to achieve it.
Posts: 8,574
Matilda Huggington-beareI love you guys!!!! Your honesty, caring and support is what draws me and keeps me here!!!
:hug: Wendy :hug:
Cleathero CreationsShantell your bears are really lovelyI too have been trying to find my way with the bears. Your bears are sweetly baby faced with an innocence that touchees people who looks at them.
You need to please yourself in making them and not worry about what other people say as there is someone out there who will love your work.
For example I am not a huge anime fan but I have come to appreciate them after all this time but there are hundreds out there that just think they are divine. Your bears have a special something but I know you want to add the extra special something! You'll get there.
As for flamingbear the name is TROLL and should be ignored.
LuxembearsI really can't add much to what has already bee said here. A lot of feathers have been ruffled .
I am a true believer in the power of being positive. In any profession there are varying levels of skill and talent. What makes this so unique is that we can all come togther in the art that we love and become a "family" sharing are ideas, triumphs, and pitfalls...in a very supportive way. The only outcome of saying unkind words is hurt feelings. If we always look for the good, then we become what we feel....good people.
I have a saying, "Closed mouths gather no feet." Sometimes it is better to bite your tongue and always train your self to look for the good in everything.
Positive energy feels great!
Baird'sBears
Shantell, your bears are adorable and very distinctive--wide-eyed gentle cubs with maximum huggability. I think yours is a classic look, generally speaking, as opposed to an edgy-modern or deliberately-antiqued look, and I hope you'll keep it. I love the thick fur!!
The only thing I can think of to suggest is adding embellishments that enhance the gentle cub look--anything from flowers to diapers to baby clothing, making the girls very distinct from the boys. Just a thought, and it might go entirely against your grain!
Poor Flamingbear missed the point entirely, and probably doesn't know that 10 artists using exactly the same pattern and instructions will produce 10 very different bears. Only an expert could tell that they were made from the same pattern. It's not only the variations in material that produce these differences, either. It's the variations in artists.
Developing your own recognizable look is a personal journey, as Shantell obviously knows, and asking for feedback is part of it, as we all know. Tips about technique--and I've learned many here--do not lead to copies or a mishmash of styles. Learning about Shelli's eyes or Judi's needlefelted faces and paws and airbrushed fur hasn't led to anyone producting a Potbelly Bear or a Luxembear or a some weird hybrid of the two.
Back Road BearsI love Daphne's idea..
You mean this one?
FlamingBear... you've gotten WAY TOO MUCH attention for such rotten behavior!
EVERYONE: in the future may I recommend that we all just ignore FlamingBear's posts.
Thank you! I did too!!!
I think I maybe think differently to some of you.I do think having specific techniques explained blow by blow does affect the end result.I think if an artist sees something extra on a bear by someone else and thinks "I like that and I fancy doing something like that" and then goes off and does their version of it this makes a unique take on an idea but if the exact method is explained that artistic twist is lost.I am sure many of us have produced mutants in the process of trying to master something.This hopefully ends up with a truly unique bear.I don't do any of the specialist eyes and pads and claws etc but if I wanted to, I think I would plod away trying to master it in my own way.I am by no means picking fault with what others do and people asking for help I am just worried that it affects the outcome.It seems a bit like running before you can walk.There have been many posts in the past where people have been dissatisfied with their bears and seem to think adding embelishments and fancy techniques improves them.Maybe it does in some cases but to me you have to go back and improve the basic design of the bear instead.It must be hard for aspiring artists to see some of the wonderful work displayed on TT and wish they could produce the same type of thing but there is no substitute for puting the time in.
I look at some of the bears and they inspire me to work much harder and try to improve.
I have passed on many tips about dyeing fabric and sewing etc and think that just saves time for other artists.
I don't think asking for help is cheating ,I just think learning for yourself makes you a better and happier artist.
Please don't hate me I am a bit like Jim Carrey "I cannot lie".
Hugs Diane xxx
I think I am with you nettie on this one, thats why I wont buy books on bear making I would sooner plod along, try and experiment with a new idea than ask for a blow by blow account of how to do something, I would feel like I had copied the technique rather than learned something new for myself. And I have never been one for reading instructions either I get fed up and would sooner just get on with the fun. Saying this I have asked for help when it came to what is requested for bear competitions, not because I wanted to enter, but because I wanted to measure the quality of my work and I have asked for help when it comes to what step next with my business as the bear world is huge and sometimes I can feel a little lost. However each artist is very different and the nice thing about TT is that if you need confidence help or support it can be found here.
I also agree with Judi too, that positive thinking is important. Always remember what makes you happy and why you do the things that you do whether it is bear making or anything else, enjoy what ever you do and the rest will follow and ignore the people who bring negativity they just hinder and prevent creativity in others
It shows in your work dearie!!!!!!
Cleathero CreationsHmmmm,
I can see your point Dianne and Melanie but for me it wasn't an option to try and fail! 
I would have just failed. I had never sewn, or done anything 'crafty' (or arty if you prefer). I had never done quilting or dressmaking or embroidering and without the books I would never have attempted anything as I really and truly had no concept of how to or where to begin.
Believe me even with step by step instructions I still have to do and redo and change things. I ask for help because I can't even comprehend where to begin.
I have to admit though as I acquire more skills with bear making I am finding myself having to ask less and less questions as the brain has learnt to think differently. I can look at a picture and think oh yes I can see how they might do this but a year ago, not a chance.
I have always been supremely envious of those who can pick up a craft and work it out as for me it just doesn't work that way. :doh:
You are right though when I first worked out how to do something by myself I was so proud of myself I could bust!
Posts: 2,203I am one who struggles with patterns but I admire anyone who takes the time to develop a talent!
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