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KJ Lyons KJ Lyons Design
Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,413
Website

I have been selling for over 10 years and this is the first time I have been asked this by a collector. I have a collector who is selling some of her collection. She has asked if I would be willing to sell a couple of the pieces that she bought from me several years ago. She said that she knows the artist would always get a better price in a resale. They are very nice pieces and she says they are in pristine condition.

First, would you, as the artist, be willing to do this?
Or is it better to let the collector sell the pieces?
What percentage would you ask if you did offer to sell the pieces?
I guess, most importantly, is it worth the stress and negotiation involved bear_wacko

Thanks,
Karen
KJ Lyons Design

SueAnn Past Time Bears
Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 20,271

SueAnn Help Advisor, Banner Sponsor

Wow - Karen, I think that's a pretty cheeky request from a collector and my answer would be to turn it down.  Even if you did get a better sale price, your percentage would cut into what she would net, so it might come out the same as if she sold it.  Plus, I just would not want the hassle associated with such a deal.  JMO.

Lyn Parker Bears
Posts: 114
SueAnn wrote:

Wow - Karen, I think that's a pretty cheeky request from a collector and my answer would be to turn it down.  Even if you did get a better sale price, your percentage would cut into what she would net, so it might come out the same as if she sold it.  Plus, I just would not want the hassle associated with such a deal.  JMO.

I totally agree.. wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I'm sure your work like most of us has evolved and changed over the last several years and you would want to be showcasing your current style. Also a sale for your collector could be a sale lost for you.

Hugs Lyn

desertmountainbear desertmountainbear
Bloomsburg, PA
Posts: 5,399
Website

I would not resale either.  I would point her in the right direction for a resale.  Facebook, Bear Pile, ebay.  And I do think that I would allow my pictures to be used.  I feel so bad sometimes when I see an artist bear being resold on ebay that has been photographed badly and then put on display for the world to see. 

Joanne

Us Bears Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,479

While the Doctrine of First Sale gives somebody the right to resell something that they legally paid for, the original seller is not obliged to buy it back or do anything else.

Now...  If, by some miracle, you did decide to re-adopt that Bear and you got a higher fee for it, wouldn't you be legally entitled to half the proceeds?   bear_whistle

talesia Posts: 54

I would do same as SueAnn, Lyn and Joanne said,
it not right feel to resale on behalf on somebody,
and if something can get wrong you can be even gulty one.

Juse send link where to go.
Hope you will come right.
Your work just stunning.

Jaina Emo Bears
Dudley, West Mids
Posts: 862

I wouldn't resell for someone, for the simple reason I think it is misleading to the buyer.

When I buy a bear (not so often!) I am happier to pay a higher price direct from the artist, as I know that it is 100% geniune and more importantly, all the money is going direct to the artist, as opposed to someone who is effectively selling a second hand bear... if someone is buying from you, they will expect all the money to be going to you - not someone else. Plus, where does it end? will more people approach you and then you will feel oblidged to do so as you have before and any sale issues may affect your reputation with people wanting to buy your work.

I would however maybe supply photos that you took to showcase the pieces (on the condition that any current condition changes are shown) as Joanne said, your photos will showcase it better.

Good luck!

KJ Lyons KJ Lyons Design
Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,413
Website

Thank you ALL!
I have felt the same way about this. But I have had several people outside our business say that it was just business, don't make a big deal over it. But you have expressed on the forum some the thoughts that were going through my mind and making me feel uneasy about this whole thing. THe collector is putting a lot of pressure on me to do this, but I will resist.
Thank you  bear_thumb
Karen

talesia Posts: 54
KJ Lyons wrote:

Thank you ALL!
I have felt the same way about this. But I have had several people outside our business say that it was just business, don't make a big deal over it. But you have expressed on the forum some the thoughts that were going through my mind and making me feel uneasy about this whole thing. THe collector is putting a lot of pressure on me to do this, but I will resist.
Thank you  bear_thumb
Karen

Hi Karen than just spin the coin and make 1 side - do, 2d - don't, it will work magic, and really working, I did try many times.
Hope everything come as needed.

kellydean k e l l y d e a n & c o m p a n y
Narrowsburg, New York
Posts: 718
Website

definately not.  the secondary market is crippled at best, we all see what low prices resellers are getting, even of fairly new stuff, but more importantly, you'd most likely be loosing sales of your new pieces by selling her old ones - I think the market is that tight - and you can't afford that.  it's not like you are going to risk losing her as customer anyway, she's selling off, she probably won't be buying again for a long time.

I have been asked this before, and if I can, I give them the names of any clients who I think might be interested (or give her a few you know are not) just to show that I do care.  and I'd always, always, always prefer they used my photos - providing the bear was in mint condition.  I've seen to many badly shot bears out there to trust anyone, and regardless, my name is attached, I want it to look it's best

tcfolk TC Folk Originals
Tempe, AZ
Posts: 1,553

But I have had several people outside our business say that it was just business, don't make a big deal over it

These people do not obviously understand the "heart and soul" involved in this business!  I agree about the photos, but before I sent any, I like to see some from the collector of the current condition.

rkr4cds Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)
suburban Chicago
Posts: 2,044

NO WAY!!!

And what Kelly said - Doubled!

With the exception of approx 6 - 10 artists world-wide, since Day One, there has NEVER been a reliable Secondary Market.
Collectors should understand that when purchasing every Artist teddy bear....

lulubears Posts: 280

I may be looking at this a little differently than others as far as the use of your photos is involved.  Once a piece is sold to a collector, you have lost total control of the piece.  If the collector hasn't kept the piece out of direct light, it could possibly be faded.  What if they smoked?  What if there is some type of damage or a tag or the original ribbon is missing?  Even if they are selling the piece themselves, if they are using YOUR photos, it might come across as them being misled.  I suspect they would be unhappy with you in the end, and not the person they purchased the piece from.  I realize that you use very good photos of your work, and that is the work that you guarantee is being represented when YOU are selling the piece.  To allow someone else to use your photos might end up biting someone in the backside.  Perhaps this is part of the reason the collector is pressuring you so.

Luann

boohbears Booh Bears
Glendale, Arizona
Posts: 1,833
Website

Hi Karen,
I realize you have already decided what to do, but I found the answer right away in the last sentence of your post

"I guess, most importantly, is it worth the stress and negotiation involved" -

Your own words sum it up - if it causes you ANY stress, then it is not worth it  bear_shocked 

I also agree that it was very "cheeky" of the collector to even ask such a thing of you!

Hugs,
Janice

wubbiebear Braille Teddies
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Posts: 671

How could any collector bear to part with their bear/critter?  I know not everybody thinks about their bears like I do, but to me that's like selling your family *shudder*.  And to ask the artist to re-sell their own creation is just all kinds of wrong.  Of course I have a special love for secondhand bears, so if I was able I probably would buy one because I feel bad that they're bheing cast aside, but I probably sound like I need therapy.

jenny Three O'clock Bears
warwickshire uk
Posts: 4,413
Website

Well for what it's worth I have a few times put a note on my blog that a collector has a certain bear for sale...along with one of my pictures. I stress that the deal is done between the collector and potential buyer..and I will have no involvement. I think it is a pretty harmless bit fo PR. However I agree that it is important for the new buyer to see the current condition of the bear/cat/bunny etc...so use of artists photos should be just to support the sale.
In so far as selling on behalf of a customer is concerned I think it might open up a can of worms....like what if the buyer has a complaint..the who deals with it. No it's not worth the hassle...Like I said I do occasionally mention a bear who is up for sale on my blog...but that is as far as I go.

rkr4cds Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)
suburban Chicago
Posts: 2,044

Karen, are you still on the fence about this? I realize that there are almost no gray areas in our responses, that most of us have been either "black or white".
But you also asked about a percentage of the sale for yourself, should you decide to go forth with this.
In my opinion, I probably would expect at least 30 - 35% return on this. With the auction fees subtracted from the total, that leaves her with about 50% of the total.
If I were the collector that might be the deciding factor - enough to change her mind about involving you.

KJ Lyons KJ Lyons Design
Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,413
Website

Bobbie,
We think, alike. That was exactly the numbers I was thinking about to make it worthwhile. Although, I still think it would be too much work & stress. And in some ways, I would be competing against my new work. It is a difficult decision. This is a very serious Collector and friend and she has at least 60 of my pieces.

rkr4cds Creative Design Studio (RKR4CDS)
suburban Chicago
Posts: 2,044

Oh wow - 60, then that does shade my perspective. I have only one really great collector, and if she needed to sell some of my work I would seriously consider 'working' with her. She's made a very large investment in my business, and mine is not my livelihood as is yours. Some of my pieces I would just plain like to have back for my own collection!

Then I might even lower my portion to 25% - I'm not sure if you said - is this only one piece she wishes to sell with your help? Several? An ongoing thing? If only once now and it's successful, will she be likely to ask for a repeat in the future?

Yes, I agree that it is competing with your current work in one way, but do you not have more collectors than you have cats available? Wouldn't some of them be happy to be 'moved-up' on the waiting list by being given the opportunity to receive one of your *fairly recent* pieces at a slightly reduced price?
Sooner and slightly lower are special pulls that can work for you as well as against you, especially if the kitten/cat isn't too far off your current style: i.e., not too old without most of your current techniques. Most of us wouldn't like to be involved with 4 - 5 year old work as our techniques have moved so far beyond that type of work since then!

Hmmm - much more thought going into this.

boohbears Booh Bears
Glendale, Arizona
Posts: 1,833
Website

Hi Karen,
My 2 cents worth again!  Not to keep posting what you have already posted but truly, I am reading in to what you are writing and I feel if anything creates this much stress just thinking about it,  that it will only get worse should you decide to do it - you stated:  "making me feel uneasy about this whole thing"  and "the collector is putting a lot of pressure on me to do this.  Although, I still think it would be too much work & stress" ...  You mention that this collector is a "friend" - I honestly believe if she is a friend she will understand if you explain that it would be too stressful for you to become involved in reselling your pieces.   
Hugs,
Janice

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