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Jellybelly Bears Jul 12, 2006

Firstly, agree with Daphne...ignore!!  People like this thrive on the conflict!!! 
Shelli, Dilu, Tracey etc etc  :clap:  And has this person thought that we may just be nice positive people!!  Not dishonest!  Kinda insulting hey!
While I am a self taught artist and I thrive on the challenge of figuring something out, I have also refined lots of my skills by reading how other artists work...wow! there is a better way of doing such and such.....and while I do agree with Dianes and Melanies thoughts too, I think its important to remember that everyone is different.  As long as we are having fun, not hurting anyone or being mean why should there be a problem...Why steal someones happiness and love in something they do....

Jellybelly Bears Jul 12, 2006

I have always found it amusing that my mother and sister are very clever with Mathmatics and envy that they can add up any figure in their heads...i still count on my fingers....yet, took after my fathers artistic nature ...so i do believe it's part of you and you can't make someone become an artist...you create what's within you!

haha, Lisa, I'm glad you admitted that you are bad at maths...now I don't feel so bad lol.  I'd rather be artistic anyway hehe
and yes, it does come from within...that feeling of excitement and happiness that wells inside you when you are creating from within and in your element...the creating zone lol...it is a wonderful feeling...I think that is the best advice..work from within and getting that happy feeling...work on being happy and enjoying your craft

bearlysane Jul 12, 2006

Shantell,

I don't think there is anyone amongst us that hasn't felt the way you do at some time or other.

My feeling is, your confidence needs a boost...your bears are great and as far as I can tell everyone sees a bear through different eyes. What appeals to one collector doesn't necessarily appeal to another...you'll never be able to please everyone.

Follow your gut feeling and run with it...you'll find your niche in time...OMG it took me nearly ten years to find something I was really happy and content with...and yet I still strive to improve my work!

You're doing great girl,
Big beary hugs,
Sandi

chrissibrinkley Jul 12, 2006

I have to ask ....When we go to a doctor, lawyer, hairdresser, realtor or hand our children over to teacher we want them fully educated and schooled within the best means available.  We want to see degrees hanging on the wall, we want to know that they spent countless hours being taught and that they learned their skill.
Why would we not accept and expect the same for artists? Those others all had a basic internal passion for their craft/profession and then built upon it via education. Why wouldn't an artist strive to enhance their talent via an educational route ? (books, magazines, seminars, workshops, TT all being avenues to pursue that education).

Artistic talent is a gift, but can we really think that learning should or can be left out of the equation.  The greats all had apprentices...many greats were themselves apprentices. Michelangelo was apprenticed at the age of thirteen (in 1488) to the painter D. Ghirlandajo. Leonardo da Vinci was apprenticed to the artist Andrea di Cione. The greatest thinkers of our times sat on stone steps teaching, discussing, and absorbing what both teacher and students had to offer.... they weren't off by themselves scratching in the dirt hoping to get it right!

My one younger sister attended a very prestigious art college. I don't think she is any more or less gifted than a self taught artist, but she shouldn't be looked at as a person who wouldn't figure it out for herself either. She possessed a gift and talent, but learned techniques that others could teach. And now she's teaching.

Lisa, (you worried people would jump on you for your post....not jumping on you at all!  Just need to find the line and discuss what's now in my head)
Your unique bears were not influenced by other artists and you 100% agree with finding your own inner skill and enhancing bear making talent without reference..but on your site you credit the greats as those you'll "mimic" while painting. You are still able paint original works after studying the greats, so it must be that those who choose to be educated in bear making can still create originally as well. So where do we draw the line on learning, studying, and achieving internal rewards for it?  It can't be that the bear industry is the place to give it a try on your own without influence, struggle, and learn it on your own while other skills warrant study, learning, and external influence?  How could we justify and support one and not the other?  If we observe the great sculptors to sculpt, the great painters to paint, the great musicians in order to compose...then why not embrace and support bear making to it's fullest with the tools available in books, patterns, magazines, and mentoring?  As a bonus, doing so can only create an educated creator and seller to a consumer. (??? thoughts on??)

I truly believe we have to support the idea of open learning in art otherwise it will continue to be stripped from our culture.  That's probably why I'm so passionate about open learning and seeking education within the arts. The arts are being ripped from many of our U.S. schools.  Music, fine arts, and hands on skills are all seen as needless costly extras and not as basics our children deserve to be taught. I think as artists we need to embrace the idea that studying your craft and learning your craft is critical. It's not at all cheating, but a way to embrace those who came before us and ensure that others will come after us.

~Chrissi

sarahjane Jul 12, 2006

Chrissie  thank you

....you put into words what I was thinking but couldn't find the words to express!!!  :hug:

I would like to add to this that I don't see anything wrong with being self taught and having a preference for that, we all learn differently and should be allowed to do this without any feelings of guilt or inadequacy, one way is not better than another....they are just different!!!  :hug:

All Bear Jul 12, 2006

Ding ding seconds out?!!  Looks like round one goes to Flamingbear ... which is a real shame. 

Seems like we're losing a little focus here.  TT is a tight knit community .. I for one would like to keep it that way. Waddya think?

Surely we can all express an opinion or two and keep it generalised, so that it's of positive benefit? 

Daphne Jul 12, 2006

Ya, guys... enough, HUH???

First of all, Paula is right..... FlamingBear wins!! They started all this. You guys are just carrying on.

I should think by now that we've learned over the past year here that we don't ALL AGREE, we all come from differrent backgrounds and values and morals. Yet we are all human and have thoughts and opinions to share and a right to do so. But I think we've also got to know when a) you aren't necessarily being NICE and respectful anymore and b) when to just stop. Oh, and c) when to take this 'behind the scenes' and email with whoever you are in disagreement with privately.

No, the board does not and is not always a bed of roses or peaches and cream and with the number of members here there are always going to be differences in opinion. I've also found that most of us here are not easily swayed into thinking differently. We tend to be stubborn and defensive to the death!

Can you all just agree to disagree here and move on? You aren't going to come to a resolution. This is counter productive... interesting to read different points of view and all but remember... it's YOUR point of view... you can't expect everyone else to share it!

Phew, got that off my chest!!
The resident Peace Maker strikes again! 

Jellybelly Bears Jul 12, 2006

Yay, group hug time then Daphne.  :hug:  Big hugs to you too Lisa...you are loved by many and have helped so many, maybe not publicly, but definitely deserve a big thankyou from us all for being so supportive  :hug:

And too true....the world is made up of so many different ways to do things…viva la difference and do what makes you feel happy.  If you thrive on learning yourself through trial and error, do that, if you like to learn from others, that’s fine too. There is a huge difference between inspiration and learning from others and plain old copying which does hurt people..as long as you aren't hurting anyone, go for what is your bliss.   

xo Sarah

chrissibrinkley Jul 12, 2006

Lisa stated:Where have i said that i don't agree NOT TO SUPPORT, encourage or help others in this industry? Please show me?

I guess I'm confused now because I don't think I said that anywhere.  I was honestly asking a question in open discussion to someone who responded on an open thread. My questions were geared to learning via books, TT, patterns, seminars, etc. I only questioned Lisa because I was honestly looking for her opinion on the way I read the posts she and other wrote on finding your own way. She wrote a page and was very clear about self taught rewards and I just wanted her feedback on why I think that the otherside is just as rewarding..that self taught is a route, but learning via the tools available is just as rewarding and in no way makes a lesser fufilled artist.
That was it, really. I read that an established artist was giving the opinion and hence advice that being self taught brings out satisfaction in the end and I just wanted to get her feedback on my take, being that I couldn't be the only new comer who thought "I hope I'm not cheating here, I felt pretty good prior to." I thought if "some established people think that buying magazines, books, and studying others creates copying, mushing of techniques" than what about the way I saw it all when I started. That was it.

Lisa is a great talent, she's supportive, and willing to step outside to help others, I wasn't contradicting any of that.  My questions were not an attack(there was no bold, sarcasm,snide off color remarks or sayings), but honestly came to me as I read what others and she wrote about the thread. 
I never said that her paintings were being passed off as originals...NEVER...what I DID say is if she can study the masters in painting (I've done it too) and then still herself create her own original work (which she does) than it must still be possible for those here to study a "master"bear/doll maker and still create originally.  That using the tools available now can still create a very fufilled and successful bear maker and that new comers should feel honored to have this information at their disposal.

I really wish that some would re read my post without any tone or preconceived notion of what I was trying to say.  I've been nothing but supportive in the 60+ times I've written on this forum, it's not in my nature to be nasty, but it is to ask questions.  I guess I asked the wrong ones.

I'm off to re-group.....Erin have your coffee, don't let me irritate you and paula I don't have any boxing gloves on...just tears on my face.
Sorry,
~Chrissi

Dilu Jul 12, 2006

     

  I have Celena's migraine today and the print is too small and there are too many lines to read, so,

Please my loves, no hurt feelings,

I so admire each and every one of you in your art and in your delightful chracter and personalities

I feel so truly blessed to be allowed to hang out with you, and see your work and delight in your stories

Let's declare this topic closed OK? 

I believe in calm discussions-but am concerned that without facial expressions it might be too easy to missunderstand some of the finer points, especially with such a delicate topic.

Let's agree that there are very valid points to all parts of the discussion, and that is part of what makes art so wonderful-there are as many ways to learn and create as there are stars in the heavens.

I think that art is what God gave us in order to survive life, and give it meaning-well and our kids.....

You are all wonderful friends and creators of beautiful, whimsical, precious art.....

Let us resolve that that is what is important here, and that the friendships we have built up are stronger than a disagreement.....

Please let us stop before any more feelings feel hurt......

I send my love to each of you and tell you I am so grateful you are here and that you share so willingly with us.  You are each angels in my life.

Aleta - The Silly Bear Jul 12, 2006

Dearest Chrissi, 
Sometimes people read things into postings that just aren't there.  It's the nature of text. 

Warmest bear hugs,  :hug:
Aleta

P.S.  I'm sorry, Dilu.  I was typing while you were typing.

nettie Jul 12, 2006

Lets not be picking on each other now naught naughty!!!And lets not disapear up our own bottoms imagining we are Leonardo DaVinci's either(he was a veggie by the way).
Lisa has achieved way more than most of us ever will and has worked her bahookie off to get there.There is also a vast difference between making bears for fun and extra money and for supporting a family.
I have been hurt in the past after giving away too much and others probably have too.This is bound to affect our outlook.
Lets all try and see things from other points of view.
Group hugs
Diane xxxx

All Bear Jul 12, 2006

Hi Chrissi,

Hey, don't worry, you surely didn't irritate me and the boxing ring reference was general, not directed at anyone in particular.     

It just seemed to me that Shantell's thread was a little hijacked and heading somewhat off the rails.

I really like that everyone is so passionate about the teddy bear world ... it gives us all food for thought and stops us from being complacent. 

WildThyme Jul 12, 2006

Leonardo DaVinci's (he was a veggie by the way).
Diane xxxx

Diane... NO WAY!!!  I didn't know that!  Really!?

Kim Basta
Wild Thyme Originals

nettie Jul 12, 2006

Leonardo DaVinci's (he was a veggie by the way).
Diane xxxx

Diane... NO WAY!!!  I didn't know that!  Really!?

Kim Basta
Wild Thyme Originals

Yep he was along with....
            Pythagoras,George Bernard Shaw,Einstein,Ab Lincoln,Tolstoy,Gandhi and Mark Twain to name but  few and of course that famous artiste Diane Kennedy ha ha.
This is what Leonardo said

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
          Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist

shantell Jul 12, 2006

Taken from Wikipedia--

"A coach is a person who teaches and directs another person via encouragement and advice. This use of the term "coaching" appears to have origins in English traditional university "cramming" in the mid-19th century. (The name allegedly recalls the multitasking skills associated with controlling the team of a horse-drawn stagecoach.) By the 1880s American college sports teams had -- in addition to managers -- coaches. Some time in the 20th century, non-sporting coaches emerged: non-experts in the specific technical skills of their clients, but who nevertheless ventured to offer generalised motivational or inspirational advice."

It's a good thing Michael Jordan (whom my oldest son admires greatly) didn't listen to his high school basketball coach...or we might never have had the pleasure of watching him succeed in HIS dream.

And with that I'd really like to close this thread.  I think enough negativity has been spoken here.  If it were not for the wonderful encouraging and heartfelt support that is written within this post, I would just simply delete it.

Shantell

Daphne Jul 12, 2006

From posts made by the Intercal Administration on April 24 & May 5, 2005

With our TEDDY TALK forum, Intercal hopes to provide a warm and friendly meeting place where teddy bear lovers of all backgrounds and interests -- whether bear artisan or collector, craftsperson or promoter -- from a worldwide audience can join together and share bearmaking tips & techniques; resource recommendations; newly created items for sale; and support for all things bear.

So let's get to TALKing!

FRIENDLINESS, WELCOME & CAMARADERIE are keywords on Teddy Talk. Members of the Teddy Talk community are requested to treat each other with consistent respect and dignity. Repetitive, derogatory comments which malign persons or businesses will not be tolerated.
 
If you disagree with a statement or a posting from a fellow board member, please contact that board member directly via email explaining your point of view. Edit and/or Delete functions are available in the lower right corner of YOUR original post.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intercal Trading Group
Your Mohair Supplier
http://www.intercaltg.com

Shelli Retired Help Advisor, Banner SponsorJul 12, 2006

The equation:  nice = fake is flawed.

The equation:  critical = honest is flawed.

CRITICAL has multiple definitions, the first of which is generally as dictionary.com has indicated:

crit·i·cal 
adj.
1. Inclined to judge severely and find fault.

There's no place for CRITICAL offerings on a forum whose goal is to support and assist, instruct and guide.

There IS, however, a place for CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM here.  It's defined by Wikipedia as:

... the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others with the intention of helping the reader or the artist, rather than creating an oppositional attitude.

This thread is no longer producing constructive outcomes so I'm going to have it closed.